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Woodcutter
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by Woodcutter » 02/09/09, 17:39

Obamot wrote:Little question to Lumberjack on this topic. What about facade insulation made of cellulose wadding (since I saw that it was among the best insulation coefficients)?
What precautions should you take to install such insulation outside the home? How to prepare the ground? What about the connection with the foundation wall?

Because I saw that the Bellouate® was made from recycled newspapers (see the Afnor standard => unsold dailies, according to what they say) if this is the case, put it outside, even with a breathable plaster + plaster ... it is quite harsh conditions ... especially in very humid regions with high rainfall.

We realize this type of insulation when the technical conditions lend themselves to it (house on one level, easy access in foot of walls, etc ...) otherwise the constraints of use of the wadding are too important (in wet projection , because we do not blow under pressure in vertical) and it becomes more interesting economically (but not necessarily technically ...) to use wood wool panels.

So when it is possible, we realize a framework (in 2 thicknesses crossed most often) which makes it possible to create the place for the wet projection of wadding (often on 120 mm).
The feet of walls are treated with expanded cork, which is buried to cut the thermal bridge of the slab. The wadding is always more than 30 cm from the ground.
Above the planed wadding, one installs either the HPV + slats + cladding or Fibralith + breathable coating, according to the customer's choice for its exterior cladding.

All wadding is made from unsold newspapers (and a very small percentage of recycled newspapers with very strict criteria).
There is no problem using it outdoors, as soon as the rainscreen is properly put in place. Cellulose wadding does not store moisture, it exchanges with the outside environment, hence the importance of choosing the correct HPV rain protection.

You have to get out of the logic of "all synthetic, all mineral, all concrete"and that you open up to natural, high-performance and durable products that have an infinitely lower environmental impact than all the products you have been taught to use during your professional life.
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by Obamot » 02/09/09, 17:41

Oulàé! It is an entirely different type of habitat in this case. For questions of home comfort I definitely prefer a house built in hard (better sound insulation compared to the outside.). Better security, better durability (I presume).
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by Woodcutter » 02/09/09, 18:03

Obamot wrote:Oulàé! It is an entirely different type of habitat in this case. For questions of home comfort I definitely prefer a house built in hard (better sound insulation compared to the outside.). Better security, better durability (I presume).
Better sound insulation: I told you what I thought and I invite you to visit an isolated OB house in cellulose wadding before uttering such nonsense.
Better security: in which area?
Better durability: no.

Moreover, we were only talking here about external insulation added to an existing wall (which is in 95% of cases "hard") so I do not understand your point ...
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by tararika » 02/09/09, 21:38

Thank you Bucheron for your answers :D

if I take wood wool, ITE, what should I take as a model, mark, density, if I go on a monomur of 30 with a R = 2.6 (I think).

What should I check or ask the installer in his quote, are there different techniques poses? what is the most effective?

I like cork, but it may be expensive ...

Knowing that my house is under VS, it will isolate the periphery of the slab or the underside of the VS, with cork?

for the VMCDF, what brand - what performance for 125 m2

the solar water heater is it profitable, interesting under which conditions what models?

Thank you all for your help :?:

please
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by Woodcutter » 02/09/09, 21:47

You would answer tomorrow.
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by tararika » 02/09/09, 22:09

Woodcutter wrote:You would answer tomorrow.


okay ! no problem !!!

thank you for moving me forward! gift Image
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by Obamot » 03/09/09, 03:36

Woodcutter wrote:You have to get out of the logic of "all synthetic, all mineral, all concrete"and that you open up to natural, high-performance and durable products that have an infinitely lower environmental impact than all the products you have been taught to use during your professional life.

Thank you. You know, you are not wrong, but it is more by the accumulated delay than by bad will. The motivation is there. It is already nice of you to guide us as you do.

Well, I pretty much understood the ba-ba. So the junction will be done by a sort of cork belt (which will sink into the ground, is that?), Or is there still something to predict according to you between the [Edit] cork and the wadding caissons? (I say caisson, because I do not want to do a wet projection and besides I do not have the equipment to do that ...)

What alternative to cork in this case? And why not compacted rockwool on 30cm all around ...?
Last edited by Obamot the 03 / 09 / 09, 10: 05, 1 edited once.
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by Woodcutter » 03/09/09, 10:01

tararika wrote:[...] if I take wood wool, ITE, what should I take as a model, mark, density, if I go on a monomur of 30 with a R = 2.6 (I think).
ITE? : Shock: Koicea?

Brand: no matter! The major brands (HOMATHERM, PAVATEX, STEICO) are an assurance of quality and respect for the environment in the manufacturing process but:
- it's paid (dear!)
- it comes from far away ...

You can find local producers (we have in the Rhone, for us) but we must see what they offer ...

Subsequently, for and the model and the density, it will be function of two criteria of choice:
- need for protection against summer heat (equivalent material, the denser it is, the better will be the phase shift)
- type of facing proposed and mode of installation, knowing that the rigid panels (the densest) can land without reported structure and be coated directly.

tararika wrote:[...] What should I check or ask the installer in his quote, are there different techniques poses? what is the most effective?
Yes, laying in a structure for flexible material, or laying in rigid butted panels. A priori, for a new construction, I would leave more on the panel (no thermal bridge structure), but it may not be cheaper ...

tararika wrote:[...] I like cork, but it's likely to be expensive ...
No cork in large quantities please! :frown:

Cork should only be used where it is essential: in humid conditions!
At the moment, cork is NOT a renewable material at the pace where it consumes ...
There are no more cork oaks in France, all the cork comes from Portugal and there will soon be more there either ...

tararika wrote:[...] Knowing that my house is under VS, it will isolate the periphery of the slab or the underside of the VS, with cork?
Public chat VS do you mean?
Isolate the periphery of the slab nose, yes.
The bottom? : Shock:
I hope that your builder has planned slab insulation for construction, otherwise it's a naze!


tararika wrote:[...] the solar water heater is it profitable, interesting under what conditions what models? [...]
Profitable? What does it mean ?
In the long term, it is ALWAYS interesting to get rid of an energy input other than the direct sun ...
But for that, it takes material that holds in time.
I am not a solar heating specialist, some here will be able to inform you much better than me.
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by Woodcutter » 03/09/09, 10:08

Obamot wrote:[...]

Well, I pretty much understood the ba-ba. So the junction will be done by a kind of cork belt (which will sink into the ground, is it?), Or is there still something to be expected according to you between the liève and wadding caissons? ? (I say caisson, because I do not want to do a wet projection and besides I do not have the equipment to do that ...)

What alternative to cork in this case? And why not compacted rockwool on 30cm all around ...?
Yes, a "cork belt" is pretty much the picture.
Nothing special (except a neat junction) to provide between the cork and the caissons unless there is need for special airtightness (but normally, one does not do this type of sealing on the outside d 'a building).

Other than cork for this type of use? PSE or PU, but I do not believe that LdR and LdV are very indicated ...

If you do not want to do wet projection, it may be more interesting to make flexible panels. You have to do simulations to find out.
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by Christophe » 03/09/09, 10:13

PSE =?

Personally, I replace the PU for a few months by ... plastic waste in direct recycling (bubble protection style) that I "stuff" in the holes not too hard so that there is trapped air!

It works pretty well provided there is a finish protection on it ... which is usually the case when working with PU.

At the performance level I think, felt, we are towards a lambda 0.1 - 0.2 ... it's not worth the PU but it's econologically UNBEATABLE! In fact it is more an anti leak than an insulator ...

I made this particular for our greenhouse, see photos here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/renovation ... 61-10.html
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