Construction: thermopierre or wood frame?

Construction of natural or ecological habitat: plans, design, advice, expertise, materials, geobiology ... House, construction, heating, insulation: you have just received one or more quotes. Can't choose? State your problem here and we will advise you on the right choice! Help in reading DPE or environmental energy diagnostics. Help with the purchase or sale of real estate.
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jean63
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by jean63 » 05/02/07, 09:26

loondie wrote:The SHON is the Surface Hors Oeuvre Nette That is calculated for the deposit of building permits (and which if it exceeds 170m² for a single house must necessarily be designed by an architect)
and your walls are thicker your SHON is high because as its name tries to indicate it is calculated outside the work (so outside the house) ...

So here are more taxes to pay if we make stone walls and less if we make wood frame well sized ...


hehehe ... another advantage ... :D

This is exactly my house: wooden frame walls 15 cm thick filled with insulation (rock wool: in 1985 there was nothing better) + exterior cladding in Red Cedar rot-proof on battens (the cladding is 20 mm d '' thickness approximately; Red Cedar is very ioslant). Can it be ordered at SIBAC (I don't know if it still exists) in La Rochelle or Sète and perhaps in Le Havre? (the ports where it arrives by boat). I bought it like that without an intermediary; a local transporter delivered me a large package of 6 m X 1 m X 1 m, enough to cover 250m2 which I then placed alone.

This Red Cedar is very easy to cut and install (very light and in addition excellent smell when sawing :D ). Above all, it has the advantage of being rot-proof so it needs no processing.

Atqui => if you're interested, I can give you some information.

I have lived in this house for 20 years now and I am very happy with it. Excellent comfort (no cold walls), no cracks (frame placed on concrete studs every 3 meters + reinforced concrete sill 50cm high poured on these studs: then it's a construction game: the panels are built in the workshop and then assembled on site.

In the event of an earthquake: resists tremors very well, but this is not the criterion of choice in my case! It would be much more "fragile" in the event of a tornado (winds at 200 km / h (see what has just happened in Florida where the houses are made of wood). Another drawback: If the warming is confirmed, the areas infested by termites will progress to the North in France! if the wood is well treated (in my case in an autoclave / vacuum under pressure, well isolated from the ground, I hope that these bugs do not attack it).

Here is the menu :
http://www.termites-info.com/html/termites-france.html
http://www.termites-info.com/html/detec ... mites.html
http://www.xylobell.fr/catalogue_produi ... _base.html

It withstood the storm of December 1999 very well. To tell the truth I was not at ease because it has a gable facing due west and the gusts were blowing very hard on this side. We could hear some crackles in the structure !! (it's like the reed: folds but does not break .... see La Fontaine's fable "The oak and the reed).
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by atqui » 05/02/07, 09:38

loondie wrote:Ah so you have advanced well on your project?

Is it thanks to this forum?


In fact I have been pondering for 6 months.
By reading books, web documents, forums in particular international timber house.

I just found a carpenter available to help me in self-construction with 2 friends. The construction should start in May if all goes well (building permit).

My goal is to end up with a house that is not too big, little partitioned, that I will heat with a post-combustion wood stove (Turbo France) and above all, advanced and ecological insulation: I chose blown cellulose wadding ( thickness 150 to 160mm), I think that should be enough in my region (north Center region - la Ferté Vidame). I plan to install a rainwater collector, solar panels for hot water and photovoltaic production.
I am wondering at the moment about the ventilation to adopt, economical and safe from a health point of view, we are talking a lot about double flow, but I still have a lot of questions !!! so if someone experienced could advise me ???

A+
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by atqui » 05/02/07, 09:47

jean63 wrote:
loondie wrote:The SHON is the Surface Hors Oeuvre Nette That is calculated for the deposit of building permits (and which if it exceeds 170m² for a single house must necessarily be designed by an architect)
and your walls are thicker your SHON is high because as its name tries to indicate it is calculated outside the work (so outside the house) ...

So here are more taxes to pay if we make stone walls and less if we make wood frame well sized ...


hehehe ... another advantage ... :D

This is exactly my house: wooden frame walls 15 cm thick filled with insulation (rock wool: in 1985 there was nothing better) + exterior cladding in Red Cedar rot-proof on battens (the cladding is 20 mm d '' thickness approximately; Red Cedar is very ioslant). Can it be ordered at SIBAC (I don't know if it still exists) in La Rochelle or Sète and perhaps in Le Havre? (the ports where it arrives by boat). I bought it like that without an intermediary; a local transporter delivered me a large package of 6 m X 1 m X 1 m, enough to cover 250m2 which I then placed alone.

This Red Cedar is very easy to cut and install (very light and in addition excellent smell when sawing :D ). Above all, it has the advantage of being rot-proof so it needs no processing.

Atqui => if you're interested, I can give you some information.


Hi Jean63.

Yes, that interests me, where to get boid of structure and cladding naturally rotproof and resistant without treatment which in my opinion is always toxic.
My carpenter is equipped to cut and mount the frame panels on site ...
In fact the land is in 28 5Vertame Vidame).

A+
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loondie
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by loondie » 05/02/07, 10:10

Well for a 15cm wooden wall compared to 20 + 10 insulating boards for (approximately) the same insulation coefficient we gain at least for a 100m² house of 10X10m (which is the best surface / perimeter ratio apart a cylindrical house) we gain 6m² or 6% of surface
(knowing that the m² built is worth 1000 euros it's already 6000 euros less for the purchase - the price of a competent architect !!! :P - and then 6% of all relative taxes which are counted pro-rata)

but as the houses are not really square we easily earn more, I would commonly say 10% for a single house of 130 m² (a saving of 13 m²) 13 euros ...

for a municipality which requests 1000 euros per year, that makes another 1000 euros every 10 years ... :?

:? :?
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jean63
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by jean63 » 05/02/07, 11:07

especially advanced and ecological insulation: I chose blown cellulose wadding (thickness 150 to 160mm), I think that should be enough in my region (north Center region - la Ferté Vidame). I plan to install a rainwater collector, solar panels for hot water and photovoltaic production.
I am wondering at the moment about the ventilation to adopt, economical and safe from a health point of view, we are talking a lot about double flow, but I still have a lot of questions !!! so if someone experienced could advise me ???

Hello,

The structural wood, as far as I'm concerned, is Douglas Fir autoclaved (but it was an additional safety) normally rot-proof. This Douglas came from the forests of Livradois-Forez to Noirétable. At altitude where it grows less quickly than on the plain (more dense). Otherwise, there is (from memory) one (or) loggers who offer Douglas which grows at 400 m altitude ... you see, but I preferred the mountain.

For the cladding wood you can also take wood "made in France" from larch (this eliminates transport and CO2 emissions: Red Cedar comes from Western Canada: British Columbia).
There is a builder in Briançon who makes superb chalets he is called LOMBARD - VASINA, they can perhaps tell you how to get Mélèze.

I chose the blown cellulose wadding (thickness 150 to 160mm),

GREAT !! in 1985 it did not exist or little, I did not know. 150 mm is perfect with wood: no thermal bridge.

I am wondering at the moment about the ventilation to adopt, economical and safe from a health point of view, we are talking a lot about double flow, but I still have a lot of questions !!! so if someone experienced could advise me ???

I also hesitated and finally I did not put anything hoping that the wood would regulate the humidity level (I have a lot of apparent wood everywhere in the living room - beams + ceiling - paneling in the upstairs bedrooms ) .......... and it works = 20 years without VMC and no humidity problems, perfectly healthy walls. We open the windows from time to time. : Mrgreen:
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Only when he has brought down the last tree, the last river contaminated, the last fish caught that man will realize that money is not edible (Indian MOHAWK).
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by Targol » 05/02/07, 11:29

atqui wrote:I am wondering at the moment about the ventilation to adopt, economical and safe from a health point of view, we are talking a lot about double flow, but I still have a lot of questions !!! so if someone experienced could advise me ???

A+


Hello,
did you find out about canadian well for ventilation (to replace or complement a CMV).
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by atqui » 05/02/07, 11:48

Targol wrote:
atqui wrote:I am wondering at the moment about the ventilation to adopt, economical and safe from a health point of view, we are talking a lot about double flow, but I still have a lot of questions !!! so if someone experienced could advise me ???

A+


Hello,
did you find out about canadian well for ventilation (to replace or complement a CMV).


Yes, I have studied the matter. But it is difficult to implement and it seems that it is not worth it in my region.
Maybe I will do like Jean63, opt for "natural" ventilation, hoping that my wall will be sufficiently airtight and "breathable" to water vapor ...
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by Targol » 05/02/07, 14:31

atqui wrote:
Targol wrote:Hello,
did you find out about canadian well for ventilation (to replace or complement a CMV).


Yes, I have studied the matter. But it is difficult to implement and it seems that it is not worth it in my region.


It is not complicated to implement if you take advantage of the water inlet trenches, elec or wastewater trenches to put your Canadian well pipe.
In renovations, it's more cotton, but in new, one or two more backhoe shots, it's harmless.
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jean63
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by jean63 » 05/02/07, 16:21

It is not complicated to implement if you take advantage of the water inlet trenches, elec or wastewater trenches to put your Canadian well pipe.


yes except that, in general, the pipes do not pass 1,50 m deep and the length of these is not necessarily sufficient.

Anyway: when you want, you can ... if the finances follow.
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Only when he has brought down the last tree, the last river contaminated, the last fish caught that man will realize that money is not edible (Indian MOHAWK).
Targol
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by Targol » 05/02/07, 16:27

jean63 wrote:
It is not complicated to implement if you take advantage of the water inlet trenches, elec or wastewater trenches to put your Canadian well pipe.


yes except that, in general, the pipes do not pass 1,50 m deep and the length of these is not necessarily sufficient.

Anyway: when you want, you can ... if the finances follow.


You're right, I misspoke.
What I meant to say is that when the guys are there with their backhoe, you ask them to dig an extra trench for a little ticket. I have already done so, they generally agree: it is the boss who pays the fuel and they who pocket the ticket : Mrgreen:
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"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist." KEBoulding

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