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Woodcutter
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by Woodcutter » 03/04/09, 14:59

Christophe wrote:Mmm ok then I withdraw ... It's roughly 1200kWh per year.

But for how many people is it?
A family of 4.
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by Christophe » 03/04/09, 15:18

Mwarf 4 people, aren't they "a little" extremists?

They have no PC or freezer I assume?

How much does a regulation + solar circulator consume over the year?

Let's say 20W average, or 170 kWh over a year.
Or more than 1/10 of the total bill?

Ah but I forgot the most important: in which region?
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by Capt_Maloche » 03/04/09, 17:58

marion210186 wrote:Here is my brief as it stands:
https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/partager/1238760315yw5LSb.doc


Your report is not bad at all, I went through it very quickly, I also remember this in relation to the question you asked about the why of the too slow development of passive houses

Image
The good point of view is: "yes it's great, but if it doesn't cost me more"

marion210186 wrote:I am open to criticism and ideas.


I do it? : Cheesy:
No i don't :D
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by Woodcutter » 03/04/09, 20:06

Christophe wrote:Mwarf 4 people, aren't they "a little" extremists?
Extremists, surely not! Certainly convinced.

Christophe wrote:They have no PC or freezer I assume?
Why ? A freezer, and a PC for each person, all laptops on the other hand (including 2 teenagers).

Christophe wrote:How much does a regulation + solar circulator consume over the year?

Let's say 20W average, or 170 kWh over a year.
Or more than 1/10 of the total bill?
I don't know, but I need to be able to find it.

Christophe wrote:Ah but I forgot the most important: in which region?
Rhône Valley, North Vaucluse. Climate zone H2d.
Last edited by Woodcutter the 03 / 04 / 09, 20: 07, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 03/04/09, 20:07

Ah thank you for the .doc I missed the message! I look and tell you "what" as we say in the NOOOOOORD!
: Cheesy:
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by Woodcutter » 03/04/09, 22:41

marion210186 wrote:[...] I am open to criticism and ideas.
I'm going for it...

Page 4:
- synonymous with "green house" = eco-built house. The term "eco-construction" is beginning to be known to the general public.
- better to talk about BBC rather than HPE, because HPE does not represent anything, it is only a gradation of RT 2005. BBC represents the level of the next RT, probably in 2012.

Page 11:
- we can also talk about the "post-beam" structure for wooden houses, it is a different variant of the "load-bearing platform" of North American origin that you mentioned.
- I don't see the difference between logs and logs.
- straw houses can be mounted in different ways. The one you describe (attached to the mortar) is surely not the most widespread or the most effective of the mounting techniques for straw walls. Furthermore, straw houses need a load-bearing structure, the walls are not.

Page 12:
- perhaps it should be specified that the hemp bricks are made from hemp chenevotte (and not fibers)? In addition, these bricks are not load-bearing either, it is necessary as for the straw, another structure.
- there are among the insulating structures many other very common products (cellular concrete) or less widespread (cinder blocks COGETHERM in pumice, concrete blocks DOMUS in clay and expanded glass) which all have fairly close performance, but gray energies which differ ...
- the walls can also, according to the chosen construction principle, ensure a very large part of the management of the water vapor produced in the house. In addition, an eco-built house will have very limited toxic emissions inside if the occupants are careful with their furnishings. Thus, it is not necessary to "ventilate" to maintain healthy indoor air.
- you forgot the cellulose wadding in natural insulation ... :?

Page 13:
- comfort at ground level also requires the use of materials with high effusiveness (terracotta, wood).
- insulation in thickness can also be done with structure + insulating and blackout filling, there is not only carrier and insulator.
- rather than "glass quality", I think it is better to use "glass quality" ...
- replacing air with rare gases improves the performance of glazing because the gas lambda is better than that of air.

Page 16:
- the geothermal energy drawn from the depths of the Earth does not seem to me to be renewed by the sun. This energy comes from the heat of the nucleus and tends (but not on the human time scale) to decrease.
- it is not the vapor which absorbs heat, but the change of state, a gas is very bad energy accumulator.

Page 17:
- there is confusion in biofuels. Some cultivated plants make it possible to recover directly usable products (oil-producing plants producing oil) and others produce sugary juices (beets, canes, cereals) which will produce alcohol (ethanol) which can be used as it is or enter the manufacturing process of processed products (vegetable oil ester, ETBE and MTBE)

Page 18:
- rainwater is not "unfit for consumption", see the Eautarcie site (http://www.eautarcie.com/index.html) and the work of Pr Joseph Országh ...
- I don't understand what this paragraph does in 5.3) Producing energy ?

Page 24:
- the insulation from the outside does not necessarily change the appearance of the house, the facades can be redone identically.

Page 25:
- how does a greenhouse cultivation have a heavy impact on the environment?
- how are "traditional" houses in certain places incompatible with the concept of a positive house?

Page 27:
- it is the price of all forms of energy, globally, which will increase, not only the energy from fossils.

Page 32:
For sources of information concerning eco-construction, see Editions Terre Vivante, there are many references.

Page 34:
- for glazing, the value of the spacing between glasses must be set, because performance depends on it.

Page 35/36:
there is more information on the Eco-PTZ on the MEEDDAT or ADEME website, in particular on the performance requirements for rehabilitations. To be able to claim the maximum amount of the loan (€ 30), a bouquet of three work, or have a thermal study recommending work bringing the house below a defined threshold of energy consumption.

Page 37:
interesting interview, but this house is not really "eco-built" ...
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by Chartrousin » 04/04/09, 00:54

Woodcutter wrote:- better to talk about BBC rather than HPE, because HPE does not represent anything, it is only a gradation of RT 2005. BBC represents the level of the next RT, probably in 2012.
[...]
Page 37:
interesting interview, but this house is not really "eco-built" ...

+ 1 + 1
BBC has much more meaning. HPE already does not represent much, once RT2012 is in BBC, we will not talk much about it ...

Not much to add to what Bucheron already said, here are some tips:

- p23 I am not sure that passive is still democratizing in France, this is hardly the case for low consumption, as long as it is not compulsory (http://www.lamaisonpassive.fr/ , I don't know if it's representative, only listed 10 projects in 2007 and 50 in 2008, it's not really democratized yet ...)

- pay attention to the units (teacher reflex : Cheesy: ), there is a full kW (power) instead of kWh (unit of energy).


As for the interview, it is indeed very interesting. Unfortunately, the house is not really eco-built, as Bucheron says, and it is a pity that the example is not French (the prices and aid are from Belgium, and as you study a lot the financial reasons of development in France ...).
There is also a contradiction between your definitions of passive and positive in intro:
Maximum optimization is therefore currently represented by the so-called “positive” house. It incorporates all the energy saving techniques mentioned above, while adopting the most recent technological developments to produce, maintain and control all energy needs (heat, electricity, water).

and the example given in the interview, which is in fact a barely low consumption house with pv, which makes it positive, but without applying "all the energy saving techniques mentioned previously":
In our case, in Belgium, the price of a positive house is the same price as a passive house. The explanation is simple, the more you insulate a house the more the price becomes exorbitant. The insulation budget was therefore used to generate electricity by placing photovoltaic panels.


There is also no information on the surface of the house, which does not allow to interpret the heating consumption (if it is 75m², we arrive in primary energy at 100kWhEP / m² / year just for the heating, barely an RT2005 house roughly; on the other hand if it is 200m² ...). But that may not have been the goal.


It is a very interesting report in any case, you have pretty much scanned the current situation of the building, and it is not necessarily easy to summarize all this in 30 pages, so there are factors that come into account.
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by Woodcutter » 04/04/09, 17:21

Chartrousin wrote:[...] As for the interview, it is indeed very interesting. Unfortunately, the house is not really eco-built, as Bucheron says, and it is a pity that the example is not French (the prices and aid are from Belgium, and as you study a lot the financial reasons of development in France ...).
There is also a contradiction between your definitions of passive and positive in intro:
Maximum optimization is therefore currently represented by the so-called “positive” house. It incorporates all the energy saving techniques mentioned above, while adopting the most recent technological developments to produce, maintain and control all energy needs (heat, electricity, water).

and the example given in the interview, which is in fact a barely low consumption house with pv, which makes it positive, but without applying "all the energy saving techniques mentioned previously":
In our case, in Belgium, the price of a positive house is the same price as a passive house. The explanation is simple, the more you insulate a house the more the price becomes exorbitant. The insulation budget was therefore used to generate electricity by placing photovoltaic panels.


There is also no information on the surface of the house, which does not allow to interpret the heating consumption (if it is 75m², we arrive in primary energy at 100kWhEP / m² / year just for the heating, barely an RT2005 house roughly; on the other hand if it is 200m² ...). But that may not have been the goal. [...]


I thought back last night to this interview and indeed, I did not insist enough on this point which bothers me a lot: for me, a "positive" house has absolutely no interest if it is not very economical in terms of energy...

In this sense, I totally disagree with the owner interviewed who says: "the more you insulate a house the more the price becomes exorbitant. The insulation budget was therefore used to generate electricity by placing photovoltaic panels."

In a new building like his, putting 35 cm of cellulose wadding instead of 20 cm of LoS is not "exorbitant" and costs only a fraction of its PV installation, which must also be substantial enough to produce as much per year, probably more than what a private individual can do in France.

Too bad we do not know in more detail the characteristics of the house (joinery, details of ceilings, etc ...), I would have liked to do a little simulation ...
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by Chartrousin » 05/04/09, 00:01

Woodcutter wrote:In this sense, I totally disagree with the owner interviewed who says: "the more you insulate a house the more the price becomes exorbitant. The insulation budget was therefore used to generate electricity by placing photovoltaic panels."


It surprised me that you did not notice this point : Cheesy:

In fact I think it is a little premature to try to analyze why positive houses are not developed, while bbc and passive are not even yet; that would be skipping a step. By the way, the thermal regulations predict the bbc quickly, but the positive will not be until 2020.

Woodcutter wrote:Too bad we do not know in more detail the characteristics of the house (joinery, details of ceilings, etc ...), I would have liked to do a little simulation ...

+1
It is even strange that there is no information on the above on their site provided enough, but enough clutter. If I make a super positive house, and I want to make it known on the net, I give at least the kWhEP / m² so that it means something.
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by fthanron » 05/04/09, 09:06

Huhu poles for construction in straw bales ??? !!

http://www.atelierwernerschmidt.ch/flirimaus.mov good it's "a little thick ok; o)

Have a good day

PS: here is an interesting document (for me) http://www.logiconfor.info/pourquoi-le- ... le-passif/
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