Turbulator ARGENTINO diesel

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Re: new test TURBULATOR ARGENTINO




by crispus » 11/03/09, 15:05

rodibruno wrote:We performed experimental tests on a bench with dinamotor and it rose to an 8hp engine Cummins 160hp!

Image
VISTA DEL EQUIPAMIENTO

A gain in power of 5% is always good to take. On the other hand it would be good to know the new regime of maximum power, which must be lower than at the origin. VSLA increases torque at low speed but reduces maximum speed.

Regarding the assembly of AVEC at the input of the turbo, there is a risk of runaway of it: if the amount of air entering is too low (eg: blades too tight), the turbo runs empty.
Well dosed against this can be a low-load advantage, throwing the turbo at full speed with few calories. To see the deformable vortex generator (BMW) which "retracts" at full load ...
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by Capt_Maloche » 11/03/09, 20:40

In fact, there is talk of improving the performance of the turbo, should know that a car turbo runs at about 200 000 rpm

I think it's a better orientation of the airflow on the leading edges of the fins which allows a small gain
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Re: new test TURBULATOR ARGENTINO




by Woodcutter » 11/03/09, 23:48

Crispus wrote:[...] Regarding the installation of AVEC at the entrance of the turbo, there is a risk of runaway of it: if the amount of air entering is too low (ex: too tight blades), the turbo runs empty.
[...].
: Shock: :?: There, you'd have to explain that to me in more detail!

What turns the turbo (turbine part) are the exhaust gases. As long as the compressor part is at atmospheric pressure, I don't see how it could "get carried away"?

PS: thanks for the link to the turbulence generator used by BMW, I learned something. : Wink:

Capt_Maloche wrote:In fact, there is talk of improving the performance of the turbo, should know that a car turbo runs at about 200 000 rpm
Not on a Diesel!
And even less on a big truck engine ...
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by Capt_Maloche » 12/03/09, 09:59

Ben inform you,

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocompresseur
It operates at very high rotational speeds (typically 180 000 rpm and even up to 220 000 rpm for some current turbocharger, most often its rotational speed is around 180 000 rpm for vehicles older ones eg: ZX, R19 ...).


It's high, but it's the value I find on all the specialized sites, for the diesel versions of CDI, TDI, TD cars ...

http://alex.carpent.free.fr/Suralim.htm
... the lubrication is no longer ensured and given the rotational speeds achieved by the turbine (of the order of 200 000 rpm) it has a high inertia. So by cutting the engine, we deprive the axis of the turbo oil then ...


these are the orders of magnitude
The bigger the turbo, the faster it turns, it is directly related to the circumferential speed of the fins which must not exceed the speed of sound (as usual)

you do not want to make us a small excel file that gives the max speed of a turbine according to its diameter to see? :D
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by Woodcutter » 12/03/09, 12:40

Capt_Maloche wrote:Ben inform you,

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocompresseur
It operates at very high rotational speeds (typically 180 000 rpm and even up to 220 000 rpm for some current turbocharger, most often its rotational speed is around 180 000 rpm for vehicles older ones eg: ZX, R19 ...).
It's fun, because this last sentence is found in many different sites, with different speed values, but still the same cars for example ... : roll:


I tell you what I know about the discussions I had with a gentleman who had a company that imported and repackaged turbos (in the Paris region).
On a diesel, the speed of rotation is lower than on gasoline (maybe it has changed with the latest generations of common-rail engine?)

On the example given by rodibruno, since it is:
- diesel motor
- old
- a big turbo

it probably does not turn on 200 000 rpm

Capt_Maloche wrote:you do not want to make us a small excel file that gives the max speed of a turbine according to its diameter to see? :D
Certainly not !
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by Capt_Maloche » 12/03/09, 19:01

Woodcutter wrote:
Capt_Maloche wrote:you do not want to make us a small excel file that gives the max speed of a turbine according to its diameter to see? :D
Certainly not !


Feignasse! : Lol:

Here, then I take 2 minutes, finally .. 10
Image

So, you can see that these are the value orders for car turbo

QED 8)
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Re: new test TURBULATOR ARGENTINO




by Flytox » 12/03/09, 19:36

Woodcutter wrote:
Crispus wrote:[...] Regarding the installation of AVEC at the entrance of the turbo, there is a risk of runaway of it: if the amount of air entering is too low (ex: too tight blades), the turbo runs empty.
[...].
: Shock: :?: There, you'd have to explain that to me in more detail!

What turns the turbo (turbine part) are the exhaust gases. As long as the compressor part is at atmospheric pressure, I don't see how it could "get carried away"?

The compressor part to supply the intake consumes a lot of energy (on a gas turbine the idea is that 60% of the energy that provides the high pressure turbine is absorbed by the compressor part). The principle is equivalent on a turbo compressor for Diesel. If you control the air intake of the compressor, even little or with a WITH, the air flow can not follow as well, the compressor part will operate more or less in depression and absorb less power. The turbines are linked, so they will accelerate since less braked.

This principle is used on many aeronautical turbines
and turbocharger a little advanced, it helps keep the compressor in the towers and avoid a big hole when re-acceleration.

The exaggerations must allow to quickly reach the limits and the breakage of the turbo if one obstructs too much the entry of air or too quickly. : Mrgreen:
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by Woodcutter » 12/03/09, 22:37

Capt_Maloche wrote:[...] So, you see that these are really worthy orders for car turbo

QED 8)
So you see that for the comment I made, being a Diesel and a truckit's much lower!

I have never questioned the 200 000 rpm for a gasoline turbo ...
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Re: new test TURBULATOR ARGENTINO




by Woodcutter » 12/03/09, 23:14

Flytox wrote:[...] If you control the air intake of the compressor, even little or with a WITH, the flow of air will not be able to follow as well, the compressor part will work more or less in depression and absorb less of power. The turbines are linked, so they will accelerate since less braked. [...]
This would require that the restriction is large enough to exceed the speed of sound at the turbine inlet (I think that's the limiting factor, I remember a comment in an article B.DUDOT ago ten years).

I think the systems used in competition, including the CAE Jean-Pierre Boudy, actually put the compressor depression, closing the air inlet.
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by Capt_Maloche » 13/03/09, 09:32

Grumpy is, AH AH! Image do not care who's right, as long as the information is verified

On the other hand I do not see why the turbo of a diesel engine would turn slower than a petrol turbo, I would even say that there is no difference because the pressure settings are the same, and their calorific value almost the same. (gas volumes produced almost equivalent)

Fuel ---- MJ / kg ----- kJ / L ------------- BTU / lb ---- kJ / mol
Hydrogen ----- 141,79 ---- 12,75 ----------- 61 000 --- 286
Gasoline ------- 47,3 ------ 35 475 --------- 20 400 ---
Diesel ---------- 44,8 ------- 38 080 --------- 19 300
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"Consumption is similar to a search consolation, a way to fill a growing existential void. With, the key, a lot of frustration and a little guilt, increasing the environmental awareness." (Gérard Mermet)
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^

 


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