Stop & Start System (SST) for any car?

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
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yannko
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by yannko » 16/07/13, 10:57

Let's say that Ni-Cd is reliable and robust in longevity, but it needs to know, understand and respect the blocks.

Lithium is much more suited to the modern idea of ​​the "maintenance-free, no-fuss" automobile, you turn the key, it rolls and you don't worry about it. We make a depreciation plan, and we know that at N charges we will have less autonomy, and at N + x charges we will have to think about changing the pack.

On the other hand I read somewhere that the packs on the Prius explode forecasts expected in longevity in the right direction, which is rather positive.
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Macro
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by Macro » 16/07/13, 11:54

I do not know if we can take the batterries of a hybrid in reference ... for me (I'm wrong maybe) is like comparing the life of the starting batteries of a PL that starts twice by day for 10 hours of road and that of a city car that starts 5 times for 30km ...
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 16/07/13, 20:46

We leave the subject, but the NiCd is a product at the end of availability and I do not have the budget for a VE new generation ...
As I campaign in the world of EV, lithium experimentation is a manifestation of my commitment.
All lithium conversions studied so far have not reached the level of requirement I want. For didactic purposes, with an eminent member of the forum as a partner, we will experiment in depth with my 100.000 km of decline on the use of NiCd, but that's another story ...

I am continuing the S&S experiment without having modified my vehicle yet. :|
I play now on the engine running cut but gear in gear, this causes a greater engine braking (depending on the gear engaged), but more importantly, it allows to have the steering assistance and braking ...
I'll have to try to see if pressing the accelerator pedal changes the engine brake by reducing pumping losses. : Idea:

The installation of my electric steering pump will require modifying the DA pipes.
But what to do with the belt driven pump. :?:
I wonder if I will not leave it in place and connect it in closed circuit with direct return to the tank ... : Arrowl:
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ggdorm
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by ggdorm » 16/07/13, 21:18

Hello everybody
I just took this topic on the fly. I think for some time to a project that joins this one. For information, I participated in the ecoshell marathon with a vehicle of our design and equipped with a small engine 4 time bioethanol. In these competitions, the main economy comes from the fact that the engine is cut when a certain speed is reached and turned on at a minimum speed defined. The goal is to keep a minimum average of 30 km / h. Of course, the maximum speed was calculated from the aerodynamic characteristics of our vehicle.
Following the race, I of course tested the start & stop like you but also while driving on the highway. For example, once at 125 km / h, I would shut off the engine and coast on the freewheel up to 110 km / h before accelerating again. I have a Renault Twingo 1.5 DCI of 85 hp. From the point of view of economy, it is better to restart on the starter than on the clutch.
Unfortunately, I was confronted with the loss of hydraulic pressure in the braking system which is a cause of the setting up of this project.
I think there is a way to make things really interesting but it's a job that has to go technically in depth. My goal was that the car has an automatic management of its engine between a minimum speed and maximum speed with a setting according to the speeds allowed on the sections where one moves.

Basically, I saw the system like this:

An automaton retrieves the signals from different sensors. I bought an optimized model of arduino. These are small open source programmable cards. There would be:

- A vehicle speed sensor to manage its stop and restart.
- A motor speed sensor. The goal is to detect if the engine is starting and to cut the rotation of the starter in this case.
- A series of safety sensor (braking, emergency stop, ...).
- A level sensor to know if the vehicle is in a hill or downhill and the importance of it.
- A servomotor to manage the acceleration.
- A jack or servomotor to manage the clutch. Be careful, however, that a manual action remains possible ...

In summary, the box would be set so that on a road limited to 70 km / h, the car would accelerate to 70, shut off its engine up to 55 km / h and restart automatically as long as the road is conducive to a stop (flat). or downhill).

Thanks to a similar electronic board (arduino), I also read a subject (http://forum.histomobile.com/viewsujet.php?f=33&t=1259) in which the designer was driving the alternator. Basically, it only turned when braking, decelerating the engine or when the car is downhill. The controller code is also on the site.

I will follow this subject carefully!
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ggdorm
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by ggdorm » 16/07/13, 21:22

citro wrote:We leave the subject, but the NiCd is a product at the end of availability and I do not have the budget for a VE new generation ...


I also read that the global lithium reserves will not allow the electric revolution on vehicles.


The French firm Meridian International Research, in a study on lithium, warns:

"Realistic increases in lithium production will not satisfy a revolution in automotive propulsion in the next decade. (…) In the most optimistic scenario, they could only supply 8 million hybrid vehicles of the GM Volt type." While the world demand for gasoline cars for 2008 was 60 million vehicles… For information, in 2003 the price of a tonne of lithium amounted to $ 300 while in 2008, this amounted to 3 000 $ per ton.
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 17/07/13, 00:47

ggdorm wrote:I also read that the global lithium reserves will not allow the electric revolution on vehicles.
The French firm Meridian International Research, in a study on lithium, warns:
"Realistic increases in lithium production will not satisfy a revolution in automotive propulsion in the next decade. (…) In the most optimistic scenario, they could only supply 8 million hybrid vehicles of the GM Volt type." While the world demand for gasoline cars for 2008 was 60 million vehicles… For information, in 2003 the price of a tonne of lithium amounted to $ 300 while in 2008, this amounted to 3 000 $ per ton.
It's typically a propaganda article anti electric vehicle and especially anti-progress. They clearly want us to die all asphyxiated by the exhaust ...

1 / Here a study that says exactly the opposite and dismisses the arguments of Meridian International Research.

2 / As such a volume will be achieved, recycling, easy and cost-effective for large batteries of several hundred pounds (that we will not be able to throw in the wild like lead batteries) will further extend these estimates.

3 / Lithium is not the only solution for storing electricity, it's just the one that is most used for advanced technologies, TODAY.
Super-capacity, hydrogen and other electro-chemical couples can do the trick and will compete with lithium in the near future.

4 / Lithium is also available in large quantities in seawater (almost inexhaustible) and its exploitation has been considered by countries such as Korea. The cost price could become competitive according to the evolution of the prices of Lithium and that of oil ...

5 / Do you need more arguments? :?:
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 17/07/13, 01:14

I participated in the technical pole at the Educ-Eco Challenge, on the Nogaro Circuit, when the Eco-Marathon was relocated to the Lausitz circuit in Germany, near the Polish border.
ggdorm wrote:... I participated in the ecoshell marathon ... During these competitions, the main economy comes from the fact that the engine is cut when a certain speed is reached and it is turned on again at a speed minimum set ... I have a Renault Twingo 1.5 DCI from 85 cv. From the point of view of economy, it is better to restart on the starter than on the clutch.
Unfortunately, I was confronted with the loss of hydraulic pressure in the braking system which is a cause of the setting up of this project.

... basically, I saw the system like this:
An automaton retrieves the signals from different sensors. I bought an optimized model of arduino. These are small open source programmable cards. There would be:

- A vehicle speed sensor to manage its stop and restart.
- A motor speed sensor. The goal is to detect if the engine is starting and to cut the rotation of the starter in this case.
- A series of safety sensor (braking, emergency stop, ...).
- A level sensor to know if the vehicle is in a hill or downhill and the importance of it.
- A servomotor to manage the acceleration.
- A jack or servomotor to manage the clutch. Be careful, however, that a manual action remains possible ...

In summary, the box would be set so that on a road limited to 70 km / h, the car would accelerate to 70, shut off its engine up to 55 km / h and restart automatically as long as the road is conducive to a stop (flat). or downhill).

Thanks to a similar electronic board (arduino), I also read a subject (http://forum.histomobile.com/viewsujet.php?f=33&t=1259) in which the designer was driving the alternator. Basically, it only turned when braking, decelerating the engine or when the car is downhill. The controller code is also on the site.
Ben all this already exists. 8)
Speed ​​sensors, engine speed, ..., you just have to stick on it as I did when mounting my cruise control which is an accelerator pedal actuator. For declutching, it exists in original equipment but also in props as equipment for the disabled (since 30 years).

Second generation generators are now in production associated with reinforced batteries.

I don't understand what you mean by "I was confronted with the loss of hydraulic pressure in the brake system" :?:
Do not you mean a quick loss of depression with braking. :?:
It is possible that you have a leak (current failure). On my car, engine off, I can perform more 3 braking on the depression stored in the MasterVac. That said, if the need arises, there are 12V vacuum pumps mounted on some models (and on my electric cars) that do very well.

Overall, your project is too complicated to walk properly. :?
However, I am convinced that such systems will be introduced in series, combined with sophisticated GPS maps and vehicle-built collision avoidance radars that are already being used on high-end models.
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Macro
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by Macro » 17/07/13, 08:29

Citro, your hydrodynamic DA powered by the engine must be physically removed you will gain on its weight and training. The pump with the direct return to the tank will eat you the maximum power as it will be full of flow. I do not know how it is placed on a 806 gasoline but on the diesel version (as the engine is mounted on everything and anything) it is very easy to turn and replace the belt and the roller by models without DA or clim ..
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Macro
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by Macro » 17/07/13, 09:48

Which engine this 806 ???
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I Citro
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by I Citro » 17/07/13, 13:45

It's an Evasion with the 2 8 petrol 123 valves XNUMXcv.

The pump is on the top but it allows the belt, which also drives the alternator and the air conditioner (which does not currently work) to wind well around the alternator pulley.

So if I removed the pump, I would have to put a crazy pulley to properly train the alternator ...

The pump will debit at max flow, but at zero pressure ... it will not consume much, like the electrical direction of our 106 and electric Saxo, when we drive in a straight line ...

If I had to remove the pump, I would take the opportunity to replace it with an alternator-starter, more powerful with a lithium battery to store more energy to power servitudes like an electric air compressor that would be operational engine cut. ..but it's another matter ...
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