"Miracle" economizers: myths or realities?

Tips, advice and tips to lower your consumption, processes or inventions as unconventional engines: the Stirling engine, for example. Patents improving combustion: water injection plasma treatment, ionization of the fuel or oxidizer.
Chatham
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by Chatham » 03/12/07, 14:11

Capt_Maloche wrote:there is still a weird "thing"

in the example cited for a 1.8i 16v 117hp picasso the consumption is 11.5 l / 100 !! : Shock: and goes to 10.5 l / 100 with the widget

I have a space, heavier, 1550 kg equipped with a 2.0i 16v 140Cv which consumes between 8.5 and 9.5 l / 100 in mixed route and highway (average 140 km / h) and this loaded like a mule ...

It's already at the base that you have to choose your vehicle


Driving conditions are not specified ... consumption can go from simple to double in town ...
A space is not particularly economical: the consumption you indicate is impossible with petrol since with diesel we already eat as much at 140km / h stabilized ... : Mrgreen:
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by Capt_Maloche » 03/12/07, 20:25

??

Even during the strikes, where I hit at least 8h00 / 10h00 of traffic jams in Paris + some in the provinces on the full concerned, I made 9,2 l / 100

like, and lately I put a half dose of Metal 5 in each of my cars, it's much more efficient than Caps! and more durable, and certainly cleaner

:D
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by Capt_Maloche » 03/12/07, 20:53

In addition to that, vehicle performance also depends on the choice of engine.

clean performance (displacement / power / torque ratio)
but also the choice depending on the weight of the vehicle, let me explain:

I am currently looking to replace my space III with a diesel IV model, here are the characteristics

2.2 DCI http://fiches-auto.lacentrale.fr/fiche- ... -2002.html
Maximum speed: 190 km / h
Acceleration to 100km / h: 11,5 s
Fiscal horsepower: 10 hp
Din power: 150 ch
Displacement: 2188 cc
Engine torque: 320 Nm
Power (Kw): 110 kw
Extra-urban consumption: 6,3 l / 100 km
Combined consumption: 7,7 l / 100 km
Urban consumption: 10,3 l / 100 km

3.0 DCI http://fiches-auto.lacentrale.fr/fiche- ... -2003.html
Maximum speed: 205 km / h
Acceleration to 100km / h: 10,9 s
Fiscal horsepower: 12 hp
Din power: 180 ch
Displacement: 2958 cc
Engine torque: 350 Nm
Power (Kw): 130 kw
Extra-urban consumption: 7,4 l / 100 km
Combined consumption: 9,5 l / 100 km
Urban consumption: 13,3 l / 100 km

For a minimal torque gain and almost equal performance, the consumption of the 3.0 DCI is almost 25% higher!

Admittedly the engine can run a little slower and its life may be longer, but I don't see the point of 3.0
maybe the bliss?

All this to say that the choice of engine is important.
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by elephant » 03/12/07, 21:42

frankly ! what do you want f ... with a 3 liter: pay your spare parts even more expensive?

And still, you are lucky to be in France, in Belgium, you would fall stiff in front of the circulation tax of 3 liters (1000 euros or more, I believe) without speaking about the more expensive insurance, etc. ..

with all speed cameras, I think 2.2 is more than enough to pay you all the tickets you want : Cheesy:
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by Capt_Maloche » 03/12/07, 22:02

Well, I don't see the point, too much CO2 rejection! I prefer to put money in a panoramic sunroof, to see the clouds, the rain, the droppings of pigeons : Cheesy:
Image

Look, the 1.9 DCI was missing http://fiches-auto.lacentrale.fr/fiche- ... -2003.html
Maximum speed: 180 km / h
Acceleration to 100km / h: 13,2 s
Extra-urban consumption: 5,8 l / 100 km
Combined consumption: 6,8 l / 100 km
Urban consumption: 8,6 l / 100 km
Fiscal horsepower: 7 hp
Din power: 117 ch
Engine torque: 270 Nm
Power (Kw): 85 kw

DCI have a good torque which allows excellent yields, for 0.3L (12%) of displacement not less, 13% less consumption compared to 2.2 DCI

we are far from Picasso at 12l / 100 !!

in essence the deal is still very different
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OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
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by Capt_Maloche » 03/12/07, 22:03

Actually i want a diesel to do water injection tests :D
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OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
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by elephant » 04/12/07, 09:28

blunder anyway, because all I learned from my famous automotive electronics courses is that electronics control everything, including the exact amount of air ingested by the engine (compensated in T ° and pressure ) and the lambda probe checks if all of this is well burned and compares to pre-saved parameters

it is therefore advisable to inject after the measuring devices and to see what the lambda probe says: if it finds too much oxygen it induces a fuel over-injection

in fact, these systems are not really self-regulating feedback loops: the famous injection mapping, these are standard behaviors recorded

Still think about the warranty! :D

That said, for comparison I had an 806 2,1 Tdi (not Hdi) 110 CV in 1998
average mixed consumption 8,5, with the ladder on the roof. (mixed cycle, but little time actually spent in traffic)
a little more in winter because of cold starts
8,1 to 8,2 on vacation without bars or ladder, but with the air conditioning set to 23 °

the consumption of the 1,9 is good: it is in the standard of Mercedes C220, much lighter and less front surface.

I find that there is opposition between transparent roof and air conditioning: the more it is clear in the car, the more we need it.

Note for ultras: sorry a minivan without air conditioning is unlivable in summer: as soon as you open the windows at 80 km / H, there is an extremely unpleasant and tiring low frequency beat and as the glass surface is very large, there is very hot. The debate being whether we need such a big car, but that's another story ...
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by Capt_Maloche » 04/12/07, 10:26

elephant wrote: blunder anyway, because everything I learned from my famous automotive electronics courses ...

Still think about the warranty! :D ...

yes, by the way, these courses, you have the keys to operate some manipulations, for example, unplug an element to operate blind with basic values?

At worst, it's the pot that takes, I always buy used


elephant wrote:
I find that there is opposition between transparent roof and air conditioning: the more it is clear in the car, the more we need it.

Yep, that's the question I was asking myself, but what visibility in such a vehicle!, There is an interior blind to hide direct sunlight, and given the air renewal in a car, it should not be annoying ; on the other hand exposed in full sun, it will be hot inside.

elephant wrote:
Note for ultras: sorry a minivan without air conditioning is unlivable in summer: as soon as you open the windows at 80 km / H, there is an extremely unpleasant and tiring low frequency beat and as the glass surface is very large, there is very hot.

I confirm the unbearable low frequencies, except to install deflectors, or ... a sunroof :D

elephant wrote:
The debate being whether we need such a big car, but that's another story ...

It is a choice, high position (visibility of the traffic), as long as I have the children, I can load the shovel with luggage, large volume to take wood, take motorcycles ... SEE HERE
It is true that there are also trailers, less practical ...

after that it would rather be that: 300C: cheesy: ... not sure
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"Consumption is similar to a search consolation, a way to fill a growing existential void. With, the key, a lot of frustration and a little guilt, increasing the environmental awareness." (Gérard Mermet)
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
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by elephant » 04/12/07, 10:44

do you have the keys to operate some manipulations, for example, unplug an element to operate blind with basic values?


For some elements, yes, but you must have the vehicle manual and see what type of sensor (especially know the type of injection) For the lambda probe, it is a classic, it is relatively easy to fool for tests

and when at 300C, bêêêêk : Evil:

it is a car you saw me and the parts are apparently overpriced.
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by Capt_Maloche » 04/12/07, 13:12

elephant wrote:
and when at 300C, bêêêêk : Evil:


:D :D :D
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"Consumption is similar to a search consolation, a way to fill a growing existential void. With, the key, a lot of frustration and a little guilt, increasing the environmental awareness." (Gérard Mermet)
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^

 


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