A fuel-saving vortex turbulator: WITH

[Christophe]

The road test alone is worthless. The conditions are too variable. My car also has a consumption that changes a little from one full to another, without that I hack.

I have what I have long believed and shout on all roofs but it's wrong! Mine is on the contrary very stable in consumption ... if I attack more I do not see too many differences (within the reasonable limit)

Then everything depends on the economy achieved ... 20% is quite measurable and perceptible on the road, less than 5% it is lost lost ...

To pass one's car on a roller blind does not cost the eyes of the head either; saw your investment in the project (all your honor), in your place it is one of the first things that I would have done. In addition there is sometimes the possibility to ask a flow meter of gasoline, it would bring you valuable information.

When we see the results of the VW bench ... bin the benches that's more!

I think a simple ELM327 and Torque (I bought the pro version at 5 € a few weeks ago) would do the trick too ... on the road for a few euros of investment! Because it allows to have access to very precise data!

Here is the kind of info you can get with something at 10 €: eat-less-auto / volkswagen golf-gte85-over-the-multifuel hybrid-SYCOMOREEN-t15053-20.html # p326469

Some examples that come to my mind:

- air flow g / s swallowed by the engine, very interesting especially on a gasoline (because it allows to estimate the actual engine power and consumption very easily)
- instantaneous power (CV) but here I think it is a calculation according to the acceleration and the mass of the vehicle (estimated)
- turbo pressure
- common rail pressure (up to 1500 bars!)
- instantaneous consumption (but it is also on the onboard computer, but it allows to compare ...)
- real-time EGR value
- ...

We talk about it here: failure-payday-repair / OBD-erase-the-error-of-the-computer-to-edge-after-repair-of-all-brands-t14557.html

[nikolaj]

An air filter is rigid anyway, this argument does not stand up

Hello, the carcass of the air filter is often metallic, its perimeter is a perforated plate, or a stainless steel grid, but its internal honeycomb structure is in various fibers assembled, like cardboard weaves, but breathable, otherwise the air would never pass ... but it moves much more than you say ... every time the engine runs and sucks +/- air (hence the comparison with the lungs, or an accordion) ...

[nikolaj]

The road test alone is worthless. The conditions are too variable. My car also has a consumption that changes a little from one full to another, without that I hack.
To pass one's car on a roller blind does not cost the eyes of the head either; saw your investment in the project (all your honor), in your place it is one of the first things that I would have done. In addition there is sometimes the possibility to ask a flow meter of gasoline, it would bring you valuable information
Good by cons, if it is a motorhome it would be a first, it would certainly end in a photo turning on the net

If you want to stick to road tests, in addition to measuring consumption, you should time your trips. The comparison can be done at identical average speed (it will be very incomplete but it will still start to show a plausible trend).

If not at first sight your measures are consistent: you flange your engine, it consumes less ...

Hello, these "settings" installed are a proof of their impact and effectiveness in reality, thank you for your advice, I will time the routes, and the speeds (by the average travel time per km / h accurate to the gps) I was also surprised at such sobriety ... @ +

[nikolaj]

How do you measure that the air filter "swells" a bit and becomes more permeable?
Moreover, "More permeable" to air = more permeable to dust .... I foolishly believed that the air filter was used to stop dust and other solid contaminants to prevent wear, especially of the upper engine. .., I would rather say, if that made the air filter effectively more "permeable", ... to be avoided.
Your affirmations / explanations disturb me, everyone recognizes that the obstacles in the admission (WITH, filter, probes, elbows etc ...) all contribute to curb the air flow.
You say that your "inflated" air filter "makes the air pass better to the combustion chambers".
But your "inflated" air filter is better because it "becomes more permeable". So because it brakes less the air .... so that it makes "better pass the air". So you should turn your WITH which brakes the air upstream of the air filter .... so that it makes "better pass the air".

Hello, you forgot the parameter of the flow / pressure / volume of incoming and outgoing air ... that's what I worked on and managed to find, that the speed of propulsion of the incoming air, does " breathe this engine ", see this for example: https://www.facebook.com/nikolaj.palahniuk
* NEW CYCLONES AIR 5 PALES H 80 60 slope X ° ... for diameter 60 / 61 mm up to 75 / 76 mm possible ... to project the airflow very far ... in the admission of air / fuel, and save .... manufacturing tutorial in photos ... I also prepare air cyclones to 6 blades, 7 blades, 8 blades, etc ... on the same technology ... *
* Nikolaj Iliaschenko Kuchar Palahniuk: on an old vehicle, a WW diesel van, we mounted yesterday afternoon, (14-11-2017), a 7-blade air cyclone (height 80 mm diameter 70 mm) of the same technology as in these photos, in the bottom of the air filter, guess the reaction of the owner when starting cold? of a "sluggish" engine without air cyclone, a gain in power noticeably felt ... to be continued on Friday, by the installation of 3 other air cyclones in its air intake pipes ...... *

[nikolaj]

Your affirmations / explanations disturb me, everyone recognizes that the obstacles in the admission (WITH, filter, probes, elbows etc ...) all contribute to curb the air flow.
You say that your "inflated" air filter "makes the air pass better to the combustion chambers".
But your "inflated" air filter is better because it "becomes more permeable". So because it brakes less the air .... so that it makes "better pass the air".
So you should turn your VSA that brakes the air upstream of the air filter.... so that it makes "better pass the air".

Hello, I wanted to tell you that I use "Air Cyclones" very different from what "WITH" turbulators are, therefore they are mostly curved at the outlet, with a variable number of blades or teeth.
My innovations fit in the long blades and in degrees between 30 ° and 60 ° preferably, because they generate + long and powerful + airflows that AVEC, so I will not kick them, but try them again and again...
My convictions ? the steps of the screw, for example the shorter the step, the more turns and distances to be covered, the longer the step is, the faster you reach the goal ... @ +

[Flytox]

When I do not understand, I like the proofs ... and here I do not have any!

[Olivier22]

An air filter is rigid anyway, this argument does not stand up

Hello, the carcass of the air filter is often metallic, its perimeter is a perforated plate, or a stainless steel grid, but its internal honeycomb structure is in various fibers assembled, like cardboard weaves, but breathable, otherwise the air would never pass ... but it moves much more than you say ... every time the engine runs and sucks +/- air (hence the comparison with the lungs, or an accordion) ...

I never thought I would ever have to argue against such an absurd statement ... but ok:

1- An accordion structure can be deformed, its surface does not change.
2- In 90% of the cases, the air passes through the filter from the outside to the inside, so according to your reasoning it would tend to compress, not to inflate.
3- As you say, flexible filters (foam or cotton) are armed, and they are bilaterally. They are therefore held rigidly in the 2 sense. As for the paper filters, they are rigid by nature (on them the armature serves mainly to prevent them from crashing because of the support of the air box on the joints).

If that's not enough, I should be able to make a video this weekend ...

[nikolaj]

When I do not understand, I like the proofs ... and here I do not have any!

Hello, I think that in terms of demonstrative evidence by actual findings, if you have installed a AVEC on your favorite car, and you make a Cyclone Air long 60 ° blade slope, to mount it in its place, you will make your own opinion ... by comparisons ...
The principles of the Archimedean screw are known in mechanics, and in the mechanics of fluids ... you bent over it?
The principles of the length of the copper wires in the windings of the electric motors you approached?
here are two air cyclones, one of 50 mm diameter, the other of 70 mm:
the first brews the air in a crown, the center is open enough ... the air passes quickly ...
the second brews the air in the crown and the vortex center ... the air passes quickly and with more continuous power ...
you can only see it if you try it yourself ... the words are not enough to explain it to you ...
cordially.

[Olivier22]

The principle at play here is not Archimedes' screw but more likely the placebo effect

[Flytox]

+ 1;

I did 2 WITH, "traditional" like the ones you see on Quanthomme. The noise changes a little, the flexibility seems a little better but I have not managed to illustrate a difference in the conso.
I made another "With" with a centrifugal vacuum wheel mounted "upside down" (reversal of the direction of circulation) and the noise changes a little, the flexibility seems a little better but I have not managed to illustrate a difference in the consumption. However in this case the course of the gas is really different. What surprised me the most is that an assembly so different from the original intake does not change much on the behavior of the engine. The doubt that has arisen, it will be that a VSLA only really works on old engines> 30, 40 years old whose intake / cylinder head was not so optimized.
The description of the "centripetal" AVEC fitted to R19 Atmospheric Diesel must have been in there somewhere 2 or 3 years ago. or in the posts on AVEC.

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