How many CO2 to earn 1000 € at work?

[Woodcutter]

And so ? What's this ? Proof of your assertion? Do you go into "little fun" mode or what?

Quiet Bucheron, I think he just wanted to ride the stupidity of some decreasing ... and on this point, I can only join him ...

On the part of someone who gurgles to only debate ideas, always supported by evidence and other links to Anglo-Saxon publications, I find that it is a diversion and a generalization (from cases isolated) as easy as abusive ...

But you're right, the character makes me bristle a little hair!

Well, afterwards, I think I'm going to be lecture for my invective... (little funny, it's an insult?)

[Elec]

The decreasing, by definition, pronounces the fall of the GDP ("de-growth"; the growth, it is the positive variation of the GDP, and by extension of the HDI the 2 being correlated).

I think your definition of "degrowth" is really "narrow-minded" and very narrow. Why can't "degrowth" simply be seen as a different way of consuming, who breaks this infernal spiral that forces us to consume more and more (to be happy, to support our economy, to pay pensions, ...)

This definition is in my opinion really empty: it is based on the "I am anti-this and anti-this", but no serious alternative. It is a definition which may suffice, to use your formula, for"little jokes", but which is very insufficient when one takes the trouble to be rigorous, to break with approximation and intellectual laziness.

Daniel Cohn-Bendit, The Greens:

(...) An ecology of innovation, excellence, Precision, which renounces the intellectual laziness of dogmatic thought and breaks with the approximation. An ecology that prefers reality to purity, which does not prevent him from dreaming and dreaming. An ecology of envy and enthusiasm, which - without being naive - turns the back on catastophism, the ecology of deprivation, fear, urgency and threat!

And above all, a little consistency: the growth objectors are a movement that advocates de-growth. Growth is the positive change in GDP (or HDI, both are correlated). De-growth, by definition, is the negative change in GDP (...)

Daniel Cohn-Bendit:

If today you want to tackle a decrease in the energy of petroleum etc, you need a growth of renewable energies! "

[Woodcutter]

[...] Your definition is in my opinion really empty: it is based on the "I am anti-this and anti-this", but no serious alternative. It is a definition which may suffice, to use your formula, for"little jokes", but which is very insufficient when one takes the trouble to be rigorous, to break with approximation and intellectual laziness. [...]

You should be more rigorous in your approach: I did not give any definition...
Where did you read that I am anti-I-don't-know-what ?
I for a moderation of consumption (energy, raw materials), for an improvement in the quality of the usual manufactured objects which leads to a longer lifetime and a repairability thereof, for an awareness of the impact that man has on his environment, especially in the way he consumes ...

[...] Daniel Cohn-Bendit, The Greens:

(...) An ecology of innovation, excellence, Precision, which renounces the intellectual laziness of dogmatic thought and breaks with the approximation. An ecology that prefers reality to purity, which does not prevent him from dreaming and dreaming. An ecology of envy and enthusiasm, which - without being naive - turns the back on catastophism, the ecology of deprivation, fear, urgency and threat!

That's fine, you're very good at quotations ...
What brings it?

And above all, a little consistency: the growth objectors are a movement that advocates de-growth. Growth is the positive change in GDP (or HDI, both are correlated). De-growth, by definition, is the negative change in GDP (...)

If the GDP reflects the consumption of "products" then yes, the decrease is a negative variation of the GDP.

But, on the other hand, who said that you always have to consume more to be good? (GDP - HDI correlation) Economists? Humanists?
On the other hand, why would a negative variation in GDP make us "go back to the Middle Ages", a specter agitated by all those who are frightened by this movement of decrease?

Dany the Red says what he wants, he does not have the monopoly of common sense that I know?

[Elec]

When the decreasing ones have managed to correct the inconsistencies inherent in their doctrine, we will have taken a big step.

I would add that your words are only wishful thinking, of the same type as "I am for love between men".

I am for a moderation of the consumption (of energy, of raw materials), for an improvement of the quality of the usual manufactured objects which leads to a longer life and a repairability of these, for a taking of Awareness of the impact that man has on his environment, especially in the way he consumes ...

"All men agree on the ideas of freedom, fraternity, respect for man and the environment, generosity and peace. None are against. These ideas are in fact common places. Corresponding to the desires of all men, they are slogans that easily bring people together who do not notice their wishful thinking, ideal but not a driving force for concrete action (...) "
http://www.danielmartin.eu/Politique/Al ... listes.htm

Dany the Red says what he wants, he does not have the monopoly of common sense that I know?

Finally, about Daniel Cohn-Bendit, he is one of the men who knew how to evolve (it is for me a sign of intelligence), adapt to their time, and give up camper on the dogmas he had at another time. He is today a true liberal, in the historical and noble sense of the term.

[Woodcutter]

The syndrome of the eel ...

Talk to him about something, he switches to something else ...

It's tiring in the long run. Good morning !
(no classes today?)


PS: degrowth is not a "doctrine", it is a critical way of approaching the Western "consumer society".

[Elec]

Degrowth is not a "doctrine", it is a critical way of approaching the Western "consumer society".

Doctrine:

- Set of principles, statements, erected or not in system, reflecting a certain conception of the universe, human existence, society, etc., and willingly accompanied, for the field envisaged, the formulation of models of thought, rules of conduct.

- A definite and clearly defined position of a school of thought or an individual on a special problem, generally delicate and controversial; opinion on a specific point, interpretation, thesis.

http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/doctrine

Given its intrinsic inconsistencies, you're right, the decline is, for me, not yet reached the stage of doctrine. For me, there must be a minimum of coherence, solidity and seriousness for that.
So I agree with you, the use of the word doctrine was too generous, even though the definition of the word doctrine in the broad sense does not imply that the doctrine is coherent, solid and serious. I retain a restrictive definition of the word doctrine. For me, for example, Marxist doctrine is a true doctrine.

if the GDP reflects the consumption of "products"

TAX ID No: Aggregate representing the final result of the production activity of the resident producer units.

It can be defined in three ways:

- GDP is equal to the sum of gross value added of different institutional sectors or industries, plus taxes less subsidies on products (which are not allocated to sectors and industries);

- GDP is equal to the sum of domestic final uses of goods and services (actual final consumption, gross fixed capital formation, changes in inventories), plus exports, minus imports;

- GDP is equal to the sum of uses in the operating accounts of the institutional sectors: compensation of employees, taxes on production and imports minus subsidies, gross operating surplus and mixed income.

http://www.insee.fr/fr/methodes/default ... -march.htm

GDP is composed of the value of the set of goods and services (consumer goods and capital goods) produced in an economy in a year over a specific geographical area (example: in Germany).
http://www.alabourse.com/definition_pib.htm