EDF Voltalis, you owe us your energy savings

[gegyx]

To answer to Citrusthe equipment cost is not so high. (Well, have to tinker a little ...)

I have a subscription in Hollow Hours in 30A (6kw).
At the time I also insisted on having a slot in the afternoon of 14h30-16h.

So the electric cumulus starts with off-peak hours.

(I have a gas boiler for heating in cast iron radiator, but not for sanitary water.)

The electric oven always runs in Full Hours.

I start dishwasher, washing machine, dryer on the H. C, as necessary.
But these machines do not have an integrated programmer.

In the laundry room, I brought back a strip of plugs powered by HC from a contactor (recovery) triggered by the clock of the electrical panel. So no problem.

By cons not to bring a direct line in the kitchen, for the dishwasher, I simply put an electronic programmer 16A, taken (10 € in the bins "bargains").

In winter, if these machines 3 are solicited, or even 2, plus the microwave, lights, odds ... it breaks because the cumulus is on the way too.

By putting on the electric panel an offloader (we find 1 or 2 channels for less than 75 €), the problem is solved for disjunctions.
The electric cumulus is automatically relieved, in case of exceeding the 6 Kw provided.
The rest of the night is enough to warm up.

All this to avoid a more expensive 45A (9Kw) subscription.
My HC consumption is higher than the HP consumption

[I Citro]

All this to avoid a more expensive 45A (9Kw) subscription.
My HC consumption is higher than the HP consumption

My subscription is in 9kW and I do not think of going down to 6kW.
Each car pulls 3.3kW in charge and I have 2 recently.
Even if for now I am trying to load them alternately because the line dedicated to them is a bit fair, eventually it will become too restrictive (baby bottle, partial loads ...)

That said, I estimated that their consumption will represent about 2500kWh / year and by car ... is between 100 and 250 € savings on my annual global bill ...

[camille42]

EDF (it's not to push them it's a business) sees their numbers down so they try to find a solution to this.
leave to choose a procedural solution, to see!

[Christophe]

Voltalis, a manufacturer of housings for saving electricity, has been sentenced to pay a fee to EDF, aggrieved, to make up the shortfall resulting from energy savings to customers Voltalis.

Energy is our future, save it .... But not at the expense of shareholders, huh!

http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/quand-edf-combat-les-economies-d-energie-18-07-2009-583726.php

[Hydraxon]

Hum, let's see here: http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualit ... a_dec.html

They say that the process of Voltalis is such that EDF must still produce the power that is not consumed.

I do not have much idea what they are playing. Their case would decrease the active power but leave the apparent power unchanged?

In any case, if the Voltalis box does not reduce the energy that EDF must produce, the planet does not gain much.

[Christophe]

They say that the process of Voltalis is such that EDF must still produce the power that is not consumed.

A) This is the subject of the debate on this subject: where does the energy supposedly produced but not consumed go? In heat loss (pure loss) controllers managed RTM-EDF to balance the network?

B) No it has nothing to do with apparent or active power ...the box simply cut some circuits of your home (where there is the oven, the electric heating, the hot water tank, the washing machine ...) during a power PIC (info provided via internet or telephone box) ).

In fact it is an interesting service to avoid network overload and the use of fossil-fired power plants (here is the ecological and economic interest).

And so I think EDF RTM want (should?) Handle this internally. Hence this "cabal" against voltatis.

Edf makes more margin on a nuclear kWh than on a kWh flame ...

[boubka]

Hello

Their case would decrease the active power but leave the apparent power unchanged?

not at all it is just a driver controlled by the operator.
www.voltalis.com/presse/20081014_AgoraD ... ricit.pdf

the only diff with respect to systems (which no longer exists) style ejp or tempo c is that there is no longer a fixed time slot .c is the operator that unloads at a time t when there is a peak of conso.
it is a plus for the distributor who can better balance his network and it facilitates the distribution. (economy)
it is also a longer term for the distributor who in some cases will not be forced to create a new line or strengthen the existing d or economy.
for the producer the production remains the same because to offload on one side is to reload the network on the other side.

this kind of conflict is likely to become common because there is now a producer, a distributor and an operator who do not have the same interests.

before the 3 did q an edf.
this is why in my opinion the demantally d edf is a huge bullshit because everyone will want to gravel on his side while q a network elec does q a
we are going to witness, in no doubt, a crappy network managed by the economy and nobody, they will all scratch on maintenance and investment.
ex: the united states or certain mafia manages the produc (california)
and when the network is completely rotten and obsolete and there is going to be a big European blackout everybody will send the ball back and it will not be anyone

[cpav49]

I am an electricity specialist and I can tell you that, for the end customer, the savings advanced by VOLTALIS are only a marketing argument and are absolutely impossible to demonstrate.

Indeed if you cut the power of your radiators during 30 mn, the temperature will fall + or - fast depending on the level of insulation. When power is restored, the radiators will operate longer to restore the set temperature.
Same thing for the water heater, and if you draw a lot of hot water during the break period (baths, showers) the temperature of the water will drop very quickly.

In case of system failure you can find yourself without heating or hot water. And it is not up to EDF to help you, the installation being downstream of the meter.

Except to be of the trade you can not intervene on the system which consumes little but 24h / 24 and 365j / year!

In short: VOLTALIS asks you to participate for free in a collective action that it sells to RTE.
The VOLTALIS system can effectively help to smooth peaks in consumption and can actually reduce CO2 emissions (less appeal to gas turbines for consumption peaks) but the estimate about the mount in the advertising plate is totally fanciful.

One of the problems is that RTE can ask VOLTALIS to reduce consumption for reasons other than a lack of production (such as a line overload) for which the producers are in no way responsible and which in fact suffer a "shortfall".
The reaction of the producers is quite normal, imagine that a third for reasons of savings of oil comes to limit the production of the company in which you work and that this threat in the long term your employment, or the viability of the business ...

This system can also be used unequally between different suppliers, it is also an additional cost that will inevitably end up on the invoices.

VOLTALIS did not invent anything:
- the CPL system was developed by EDF (Etudes & Recherches);
- dual meter systems Full hours / Off-peak hours were driven by PLC pulse;
- EJP contracts existed for businesses.
- in the past, the EDF distribution has been responsible for load shedding (targeted cuts) in case of need, it can no longer do this without risking compensation requests from alternative suppliers (POWEO, DIRECT ENERGIE ...)

The system is not fundamentally bad but the ecological argument is purely marketing, the company VOLTALIS does not aim to save the planet but like others to earn money on the back of EDF mainly.
It is the aberration of a system with several producers, a carrier, several distributors (all virtual except one), all passing through the same threads.

This system, combined with an incentive tariff, will be very effective in a context such as it was before the liberalization of the market, ie managed by an integrated public service.

[elephant]

Welcome cpav49 and thank you for this brilliant first intervention which reinforces us in our feeling.

[bamboo]

Welcome cpav49 and thank you for this brilliant first intervention which reinforces us in our feeling.

Brilliant? The intervention only confirms those who agreed with this point of view, but it shows nothing ...

I am an electricity specialist and I can tell you that, for the end customer, the savings advanced by VOLTALIS are only a marketing argument and are absolutely impossible to demonstrate.

Users are able to judge.

Indeed if you cut the power of your radiators during 30 mn, the temperature will fall + or - fast depending on the level of insulation. When power is restored, the radiators will operate longer to restore the set temperature.

Yes. They do not say that they reduce the total consumption of a given customer. They say they reduce the pics overall consumption.

Same thing for the water heater, and if you draw a lot of hot water during the break period (baths, showers) the temperature of the water will drop very quickly.

Very quickly, what is it? For decades, the principle of peak hours / off-peak hours only operates the water heater twice a day.
On the other hand, off-peak hours are, by definition, times when there is less demand. So the system should not prevent the water heater from running during these hours.

In case of system failure you can find yourself without heating or hot water. And it is not up to EDF to help you, the installation being downstream of the meter.

They say that, by default, the system is passive. Since you have no more argument than their brochure, I consider that they know their system and that they are right.

In short: VOLTALIS asks you to participate for free in a collective action that it sells to RTE.

They say they give back some of the earnings to their members.

One of the problems is that RTE can ask VOLTALIS to reduce consumption for reasons other than a lack of production (such as a line overload) for which the producers are in no way responsible and which in fact suffer a "shortfall".

Whether it is a production or transportation concern, in all cases, a temporary solution must be found to reduce demand.

The system is not fundamentally bad but the ecological argument is purely marketing, the company VOLTALIS does not aim to save the planet but like others to earn money on the back of EDF mainly.

Of course they do not do that just for fun ...
Just as you do not work for free for EDF ...