CO2 and methane greenhouse gas terrestrial motion

Warming and Climate Change: causes, consequences, analysis ... Debate on CO2 and other greenhouse gas.
Christophe
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 79117
Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
Location: Greenhouse planet
x 10972




by Christophe » 25/03/08, 12:30

Remundo wrote:The summer heat stroke may have an influence in destabilizing the upper chouches of (CH4; H20); CH4 would then degrade in the atmosphere, the concentration drops in winter.

In any case, if this hypothesis proves to be correct, it is cold in the back because we would be on the verge of runaway climate. The release of methane is a positive feedback phenomenon. The more it comes out, the more it comes out again ... : Cry:


No I don't think the seasons influence the release of gas hydrates from the oceans ... unlike global warming ....

But yes for those of permafrost ...

Otherwise yes also for the runaway: https://www.econologie.com/les-hydrates- ... -1642.html

The problem with these 2 animations is that we do not see the "normal" value I suppose it is the median but ...
0 x
User avatar
rescwood
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 85
Registration: 05/09/05, 14:30
Location: Luxie (Southern Belgium)




by rescwood » 25/03/08, 14:53

Remundo wrote:The summer heat stroke may have an influence in destabilizing the upper chouches of (CH4; H20); CH4 would then degrade in the atmosphere, the concentration drops in winter


Christophe had already answered this question

Christophe wrote:Yes I think the same: + heat = + biological activity = + methane (and CO2 but compensated by the capatage of plants apparently).


Methane is produced by anaerobic degradation of organic matter and production is all the more important as the temperature is high (within the limits of biology). If, in fact, the optimal conditions are constantly present in the digestive tract of all living warm-blooded beings, this does not explain the seasonal variations.

On the other hand, all of the accumulated fermentable materials (manure, deposits of organic materials, etc.) will release methane at a speed all the more important as the outside temperature is high.

Permafrost contains significant quantities of organic matter, the degradation of which is suspended by the gel. The day when the climate will have warmed enough to thaw the permafrost, significant quantities of methane will be released into the atmosphere and will further increase the greenhouse effect.
0 x
martien007
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 565
Registration: 25/03/08, 00:28
Location: planet Mars




by martien007 » 25/03/08, 17:16

Permafrost contains significant quantities of organic matter, the degradation of which is suspended by the gel. The day when the climate will have warmed enough to thaw the permafrost, significant amounts of methane will be released into the atmosphere and will further increase the greenhouse effect.

Here it is, that's what I said.

Some of your scientists believe that methane is much more dangerous for the greenhouse effect and global warming than CO2, much more, because CO2 can be reintegrated into the oceans and vegetation as long as humans do not concrete or do not make desert the whole surface of the land submerged ..
0 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15992
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5188




by Remundo » 25/03/08, 17:51

I take note of your remarks on anaerobic fermentation under the effect of heat. But is this exclusive of an action on methane hydrates :?:
0 x
Image
User avatar
highfly-addict
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 757
Registration: 05/03/08, 12:07
Location: Pyrenees, 43 years
x 7




by highfly-addict » 25/03/08, 18:04

Remundo wrote:I take note of your remarks on anaerobic fermentation under the effect of heat. But is this exclusive of an action on methane hydrates :?:


I don't understand the meaning ....

In any case, Christophe is right, the seasonal (surface) variations absolutely do not concern the areas of methane hydrate accumulation, located deep enough.

There is obviously a risk of positive feedback but only when the ocean water mass has warmed up sufficiently (and given the thermal inertia of the thing, it's not for now!)
0 x
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15992
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5188




by Remundo » 25/03/08, 18:19

I meant that the 2 phenomena are not mutually exclusive and can beforehand to cumulate. 8)

Here, it would not be bad to calculate the characteristic depth of penetration into water of a thermal wave of 180 days ...
Last edited by Remundo the 25 / 03 / 08, 18: 39, 1 edited once.
0 x
Image
User avatar
Remundo
Moderator
Moderator
posts: 15992
Registration: 15/10/07, 16:05
Location: Clermont Ferrand
x 5188




by Remundo » 25/03/08, 18:28

After calculation it would be 0.84 m.

So my thesis is invalidated ... Because the hydrates are at least 2000 m away.

It would then be plants and biology that produce CH4 intensely in summer ... As Christophe says!

@+
0 x
Image
martien007
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 565
Registration: 25/03/08, 00:28
Location: planet Mars




by martien007 » 26/03/08, 00:25

0 x
User avatar
rescwood
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 85
Registration: 05/09/05, 14:30
Location: Luxie (Southern Belgium)

clarifications




by rescwood » 26/03/08, 09:07

Remundo wrote:... on anaerobic fermentation ...


Fermentation is by definition an anaerobic process

Remundo wrote:... It would then be plants and biology that produce CH4 ...


Plants do not produce methane.
0 x
martien007
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 565
Registration: 25/03/08, 00:28
Location: planet Mars




by martien007 » 26/03/08, 09:36

For methane everything is there:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9thane

Methane, a greenhouse gas
Methane is a greenhouse gas that affects the climate. It absorbs part of the infrared radiation emitted by the Earth, and thus prevents it from escaping into space. This phenomenon contributes to global warming.

In addition, it also indirectly contributes to the greenhouse effect by reducing the ability of the atmosphere to oxidize other greenhouse gases (such as freons). Its use as a fuel emits CO2 up to 380 Mt / year (industrial emissions are around 6000 Mt / year) and water vapor, another important greenhouse gas.

The influence of methane on the climate is less important than that of carbon dioxide but it is nevertheless worrying. One methane molecule absorbs on average 23 times more radiation than a molecule of carbon dioxide over a period of 100 years, its global warming potential (GWP) is 23; after 20 years, the GWP is even 62. Methane is considered to be the third gas responsible for climate change, after CO3 and freons) [2].

In the past, the rate of methane in the atmosphere has varied as the temperature. The concentration of methane has increased by about 150% since 1750 and today reaches a rate unparalleled in history. This increase is mainly due to human activities.

It is estimated that without its presence, the average surface temperature of the Earth would be 1,3 ° C lower.

Methane sources
Overall, CH4 emissions to the atmosphere are estimated at 500 Mt / year, three-quarters of which come from anthropogenic sources.

The main sources are:

Anaerobic fermentation under water : 32% of emissions. They mainly occur in wetlands (natural or artificial with in particular the rice fields and hydroelectric dams which have flooded forests or accumulated a significant organic load. They can also be dystrophic estuaries or any zone of 'accumulation of organic pollution).
Marshes, tropical mangroves and rice fields are subject to the action of methanogenic bacteria in an anaerobic environment. The temperature affects the emissions, which reach their maximum value between 37 ° C and 48 ° C, resulting in an increase in emissions in the event of warming.


Satellite analysis showing methane concentrations (parts per million by volume) at the surface (top) and in the stratosphere (bottom). Fossil fuels: 21% of emissions
Natural gas is 90% methane. Leaks in the atmosphere during its extraction, transport, processing and distribution could represent up to 2% of natural gas production, three-quarters of these leaks occurring at the customer, after counter. The graph opposite also shows the importance of losses during production: we clearly distinguish certain large gas fields, among others the Caspian Sea and Siberia. Likewise, the gas trapped in the coal seams during its formation (firedamp) is released during the extraction of the ore. If we do not want to reduce the use of these fossil fuels and without massive investment in alternative energies, we must therefore seek solutions to limit leaks.

Ruminants : 16% of emissions.
Methane is a product of incomplete digestion during the gastroenteric fermentation of ruminants. A single cow can emit 100 to 500 liters of methane per day. In addition, the waste emitted continues to decompose on the ground. Only one solution: improve the diet of these animals and avoid storage of waste, which cannot dry out when piled up.

Human waste : 12% of emissions
Waste storage places ferment and emit methane; this gas could be reused as an energy source.

The biomass : 10% of emissions
The methane emitted comes from the incomplete combustion of plants, but above all from their natural organic decomposition (like dead leaves in the undergrowth).

Sediments and oceans : 4% of emissions
Hydrates containing methane (clathrates) could emit gas in the event of disturbance of the ocean temperature and / or the thawing of certain rich soils of the Siberian and Canadian tundra, but these emissions are currently limited. However, an increase in temperature leads to an increase in the emission of CH4 by the clathrates. This source could therefore constitute a veritable climate time bomb in the event of warming of the ocean floor.

The future variations of these emissions remain uncertain, however an increase in the contributions of fossil energy, waste and agricultural sources is expected, due to the development of the world population, the industrialization of certain countries and the growing demand. in energy.


........ etc the rest is in wiki
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "Climate Change: CO2, warming, greenhouse effect ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 133 guests