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aerialcastor
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by aerialcastor » 14/04/10, 10:58

bernardd wrote:
aerialcastor wrote:Besides, people who say that one should not judge are paradoxical because to say something is to make a judgment.


It is false: to say that this event made me sad or angered me is not a judgment. And if everyone was already able to feel and say what they feel ...

To say that the temperature of the bath water is 36 ° C is not a judgment either, and it is one of the great advantages of the scientific approach: talking about the facts, imagining facts, and testing them .


If if I insist the first is a value judgment, the second is a fact judgment.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugement_% ... _de_valeur
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by bernardd » 14/04/10, 12:24

aerialcastor wrote:
bernardd wrote:It is false: to say that this event made me sad or angered me is not a judgment. And if everyone was already able to feel and say what they feel ...

To say that the temperature of the bath water is 36 ° C is not a judgment either, and it is one of the great advantages of the scientific approach: talking about the facts, imagining facts, and testing them .


If if I insist the first is a value judgment, the second is a fact judgment.
http://fr.wikipedia.org[Url] / wiki / Jugement_% 28philosophie% 29 # Jugements_de_faits_et_jugements_de_valeur [/ url]


It's because you put yourself in the realm of philosophy ... without saying it.

In French, a judgment is a subjective assertion, which is called "value judgment involves subjective assessment and appreciation"in philosophy.

And precisely, a "judgment of fact implies neutral and objective observation."is the opposite of judgment, by definition subjective.

Now, taking up this philosophical vocabulary, effectively the second is a judgment of fact.

But the first is also a factual judgment: sadness or anger are primary emotions, which correspond to well formally identified physiological reactions, visible both on the face and in the brain with an MRI.

And it is all the more a judgment of fact that it is the person who experiences this emotion who says it: no one can deny the fact of his emotions.

It is a value judgment when someone allows themselves to describe the feelings of another.
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by aerialcastor » 14/04/10, 12:49

I don't want to get into the semantic debate because I don't know it but when you say:


Bernardd wrote:In French, a judgment is a subjective assertion


All the same, we spend more time making subjective "assertions" (it's beautiful, it's ugly, it's good, it's bad) than objectives which are solely a matter of science (which few people do. know only a little bit).

And for many fields of science science has no answer: morals, feelings, ethics, love, ....
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by Christophe » 14/04/10, 13:01

No need to say I would already prefer physics / math to philosophy / French in 6th grade and it hasn't changed almost 20 years later : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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by bernardd » 14/04/10, 16:45

aerialcastor wrote:On still spend more time making subjective "assertions" (it's beautiful, it's ugly, it's good, it's bad)


Not all "on":-)

But that's the problem I had in mind when I wrote "And if everyone was already able to feel and say what he feels ..." because the unwritten continuation was: "rather than spending his time to judge under the influence of emotions ".

Indeed, judgment is the result of painful emotions not perceived (sadness, fear, anger). I say painful, and not negative: I try not to judge ;-) Because these emotions are necessary, for security, on an ad hoc basis.

But all the pubs, newspapers, televisions, political parties, religions and even education are working to make résound these emotions to amplify them, because they make reactions predictable and allow ... control.
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by bernardd » 14/04/10, 16:56

Christophe wrote:No need to say I would already prefer physics / math to philosophy / French in 6th grade and it hasn't changed almost 20 years later : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:


Precisely, it is not philosophy: no botulism here, also translated in BHL (Botulic Heavy Lying), it is toxic :-)

I had the same problem, until the professor of philosophy tried to explain the philosophy of the exact sciences to us: as he had not really understood, we had a lot of fun :-)

But we ended up concluding that he had probably not understood more in other areas than in the one we knew ...
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by Ahmed » 19/04/10, 22:41

I only recently learned about the locked thread. I deplore both this closure and the excessive comments ofEDF: the violence he preaches as a response to already existing violence would only make things worse.
If I understand his feeling, I cannot approve of it: it makes little sense to denounce (precisely and with good arguments) violence that would be bad and encourage violence that would suddenly become good once it had changed sides .

On the other hand, as I have already written, as detestable as some people who play an eminent role in the aggravation of injustices, it would be a serious error to confuse what belongs to a system and those who are not. than puppets. Sentimentalism cannot take the place of analysis.

Christophe talk about "... radical and extremist ecologists on the net who vomit their hatred ...
Without completely denying the phenomenon, I would like to point out that "radical" ecology is above all that which seeks to combat the problems at the root, CAD by attacking their causes, particularly political and economic ones.
It differs from institutional ecology, illustrated, in particular, by Yann-Arthus Bertrand, which first insists on the damage * by removing the causes and then proposing a "catalog" of technical or administrative measures likely to remedy the consequences.
In reality, it is less a question of eliminating the nuisances than of defining the acceptable doses by establishing a balance between, for example, public health and the economy, the important thing being to "drown the fish" in a purely debate technocratic who immediately and definitively excludes the main stakeholder: the citizen.

* by not denying the reality of the facts, the "experts" confirm their image of seriousness at low cost.
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by Obamot » 26/04/10, 13:45

Yes, there are some very raz-le-bol!

Especially this kind of aggressive comments:

yoananda wrote:
Obamot wrote:To come back to the bottom. There is nevertheless a serious problem of priorities which arises. It would be better to think about the right questions and know if we want to sink into nuclear power, or even into other petroleum wars, by being entangled in a form of military blackmail, in coallions which we do not want. .. And which will inevitably lead to large regional instabilities. Or if we are ready to make concessions for energy choices "Of least impact" ... In every sense of the term.

And WHO do you think will get us into nuclear power?
In any case, the reserves have been greatly over-evaluated, super-phoenix is ​​barely born from its radioactive ashes ... so the problem does not really arise to my knowledge. The power stations are in depletion.
For spelling, I am disorthographic, you will have to get used to it, or filter my posts.
For the peremptory tone, it's the same, I have a pig character. To put it simply, I'm an idiot.
Afterwards, nothing forces you to answer me!


This type of reaction based on a disproportionate ego (and not a social interest for the community of econologists) deserves to be brought to order. I also note a great similarity of tone and method with Recycling, the same IP address?
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by recyclinage » 26/04/10, 14:04

hatred calls for hatred


I understand that by dint of not being listened to
shouts and blows be heard

I believe that by dint of shouting truth here we felt repressed and forget

but we often forget that the majority of topics make a buzz

nobody answers us but many come to read

is this accept
or not ?

it's another debate

if you leaf through the information you will notice that a lot of protests come from here

with another verb and another grammar

they are looking

look what?

the solutions of you the happy medium
or you obamot
I am wrong it is that of christophe
or maybe me


the world changes
the world is moving

not because i am rich or poor
elected ministerial or police censor

but because on the internet the only way is that of reason

everyone here doesn't care whether you're tall, skinny or fat

the important is your cause
the important thing is that you say true or false

the reason for the strongest here does not exist

just the reason we have left

fight the oppressor
but do not fight among yourselves (it is good for the clever)


I know in advance that my word here does not carry much weight

but your word in the world changes things on their scales

the war is just beginning

we did not win
we haven't lost

the trading games are just getting started
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recyclinage
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by recyclinage » 26/04/10, 14:43

Obamot wrote:
This type of reaction based on a disproportionate ego (and not a social interest for the community of econologists) deserves to be brought to order. I also note a great similarity of tone and method with Recycling, the same IP address?



one day you will learn respect for others

you will stop crushing others with your claimed superiority

and you will share with the pagans of my ilk to find a solution

and no longer for your self promotion

through the long lines of misspellings you will see a thousand and one poems and you will chant freedom and legality among all

you will have forgotten your condition and you will understand the union that unites us


even if you spend your life spitting in my face

one day you will understand that you and I are the same

your spelling will seem light to you
and you will have understood the verb to love


the more you hate me the more i love you
never forget it
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