Political ecology by the UMP and the Greens: a joke?

[Christophe]

Before going to vote read this ...

UMP deputy Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet and Green MEP Jean-Luc Bennahmias are opposed to ecological solutions.

Jean-Luc Bennahmias - We have already entered the post-oil society! To avoid the dictatorial way of managing scarcity, we must immediately use transport or engines that use as little energy as possible. We know how to do it. In the United States, the mutation is starting. I come back from California where I was amazed by the number of hybrid cars.

My opinion: to cite the USA as a model of ecology is quite simply ridiculous on the part of a "green" ... Did this gentleman simply make the GLOBAL balance sheet of a hybrid vehicle ... he knows how to count ... not his bank account but in global CO2 equivalent ...

NK-M. - The petroleum molecule, you have to be aware of it, is precious. We must reserve it for uses for which we cannot substitute any other energy. For airplanes, I was in favor of taxing kerosene. But taxation has its limits. You have to know if there is an alternative. If there is none, we will no longer go to the Antilles to spend five days of vacation.

My opinion: how can such a sentence be taken seriously ??? This "lady" seems to take her standard of living for a generality ...

Source: http://www.lefigaro.fr/magazine/2007012 ... role_.html

I stopped reading this cloth to conclude thus:

QUITE SIMPLY...SIDERANT OF CONNERIES.
HOW DO THEY DARE TO TAKE THE READERS (all of us) TO LESS THAN NOTHING IN THIS WAY ?

WHERE ARE WE GOING IN THIS WORLD OF COLLUSIONS AND LIES?

When we don't know ... we just keep quiet... THESE TWO PEOPLE DO NOT SIMPLY DESERVE THEIR PLACE ... Unless their goal is precisely NOT to do ecology ...

[Woodcutter]

Houlà, it is a firecracker Christophe ...

Why are you breaking hybrids?

Why are you globalizing a specific subject? From what the lily, this green MEP did not "cite the USA as a model of ecology" but simply said that he had seen a lot of hybrids there ...
It is true. It seems to me that California is one of the main markets for the Prius.
In addition, the global policy of dobbeul-iou and its clique hides in many places other proactive policies, initiated by states or cities, in favor of energy moderation.

For the purpose of NKM, do you really think that she thinks that France from below goes to the Antilles every morning? Don't you think she says this because it's a strong image?
Anyway, on a tour, it is within the reach of many people, there is no denying it ... It costs about 600 to 700 € return ... How much do we spend for hobbies per year?

Last question, why do you get so mad at yelling all red?
Calm down, you're going to catch a hose if you continue ...

Finally, this is not a question but an appreciation, this article and the words it reports are quite interesting, I think.

[Other]

Hello,
About politician
When I see all the noise that your journalists make around Segolene Roy's little sentence about Quebec. She just said what 80% of French speakers in Quebec think, De Gaulle was much more direct in his speech. and all the other politicians rushed to exploit this, like a blunder.
I would not say what our elected federalist we deblater on these few words, all of political capital .. this is an electoral year ..
I wonder who governs, those who control information, those who control capital, (probably the same who controls everything) Poor voter who no longer understand anything, they think they are choosing, but choosing between what the media have made up for us,
one day our youth will be so jaded that they will no longer vote, and the trend is well underway.

Andre

[biomethane]

NK-M. - The [size = 18] petroleum molecule, we must be aware of this, is precious. We must reserve it for uses for which we cannot substitute any other energy. For airplanes, I was in favor of taxing kerosene. But taxation has its limits. You have to know if there is an alternative. If there is none, we will no longer go to the Antilles to spend five days of vacation.

...

on this subject, it makes me think that the Moroccan government and its tourist office is promoting for his country, including Marakech and Agadir.

So that retirees spend their pensions there.
not to mention all those who bought cheap houses in Marakech, just 2 hours from Paris.

it's going to be hard for them in a while :-)

[bham]

...... For retirees to spend their pensions there.
not to mention all those who bought cheap houses in Marakech, just 2 hours from Paris.
it's going to be hard for them in a while :-)

Sniff! no, do you think, these people are often part of the "people" and undoubtedly travel more by private jet than by eco charter ........
Personally, I bought a villa in Dubai, on the new palm-shaped islands. Well, I'm going with my Dassault.

[Christophe]

Houlà, it is a firecracker Christophe ...

Yep ... but sometimes you have to release your energies right?

Why are you breaking hybrids?

I know your attachment to this technology but sorry for me it is not econological ... you know my position on this point better is a good little downsized engine than a 90 hp hybrid ...

In addition (at least):
- the additional cost of the hybrid technology is to be converted into tonnes of CO2 (depending on the buyer's job) ... in this case is it really profitable?
- reliability and perf. in the long term, hyrbids are still to be proven ... It would be good to estimate the profitability of a prius in econological terms ... any small car (same petrol) would be better ...

Why are you globalizing a specific subject? From what the lily, this green MEP did not "cite the USA as a model of ecology" but simply said that he had seen a lot of hybrids there ...

Because he went to a very specific corner of the USA or as luck would have it there was a lot ... I don't think that most of the figaro readers know that California is an environmental exception in the USA (if we count not carbon electricity ...) ...

For the purpose of NKM, do you really think that she thinks that France from below goes to the Antilles every morning? Don't you think she says this because it's a strong image?
Anyway, on a tour, it is within the reach of many people, there is no denying it ... It costs about 600 to 700 € return ... How much do we spend for hobbies per year?

It was especially the word "molecule" that made me jump ... Frankly, have you ever seen it on TV? She knows less about energy than a visitor who spent 2 hours reading this site /forum...

She is on this show: https://www.econologie.info/index.php?20 ... us-au-vert

Last question, why do you get so mad at yelling all red?
Calm down, you're going to catch a hose if you continue ...

It’s the valve that just dropped

Finally, this is not a question but an appreciation, this article and the words it reports are quite interesting, I think.

It is an opinion that I do not share ... but hey one more article on the environment it does not hurt ... I just have the impression that the big foutage of mouth continues ...

[Woodcutter]

[...] I know your attachment to this technology but sorry for me it is not econological ... you know my position on this point better is worth a good little engine downsized than a hybrid of 90 cv ... [ ...]

Pout... I would like you to explain to me why ...

[...] In addition (at least):
- the additional cost of the hybrid technology is to be converted into tonnes of CO2 (depending on the buyer's job) ... in this case is it really profitable?
- reliability and perf. in the long term, hyrbids are still to be proven ... It would be good to estimate the profitability of a prius in econological terms ... any small car (same petrol) would be better ...

: Shock:

There, I do not follow you at all ... You would not like to develop a little?

[Christophe]

Pout... I would like you to explain to me why ...

Because hybrid technology will only be able to compensate very little for the biggest defect in reciprocating engines: very variable efficiency depending on the speed / load.

So instead of playing the top (ie by doing downsizing, in my opinion the only economic solution because it allows to operate the engine where it is the least worse) the manufacturer prefer to have fun making more powerful hybrids by adding electric assistants that don't will never compensate (econologically speaking) and as much as downsizing the defect of bases of the engines quoted above ...

At speed stabilized on road and motorway, the hybrid gain is almost NULL compared to the Hdi ...

Current hybridization therefore consists in increasing the power of the heat engine and NOT, on the contrary, the downsizer ...

When the manufacturers offer an urban and peri-urban hybrid of 30 to 40 Hp then we will talk about it again. But that does NOT seem to be the current policy! And not even scheduled in the program ... Am I wrong?

There, I do not follow you at all ... You would not like to develop a little?

A) Arf ... I already talked about it and I thought you knew my position on the subject. This is a global CO2 reasoning in relation to this technology. I will re-explain the 1st dash with a practical example:

1) A Prius costs roughly € 10 more than a car of the same class in Hdi.
2) To obtain these 10 000 € the buyer will have to work more.
3) For example if the buyer can save we will say 1000 € per month (which can be done by most Prius buyers I suppose ...), it will take 10 months of work PLUS to pay for the car.
4) These 10 months of work cost doubly in CO2: the work-dodo journey and the rejections of the buyer's work.
Obviously it is very difficult to estimate this CO2 cost (especially for work where it depends on the sector of activity but there are CO2 emissions / € GDP for each country) so let's just estimate on the routes:
- 30 km per day (low average for Paris I suppose)
- 21 working days per month
- km covered in 10 months: 6300 km.

So if the Prius allows a saving of 30% compared to its old vehicle, just on this criterion (professional journey), it will have to be 6300 / 0,3 = 21 km before WINNING THE LOWEST GRAM OF CO000.

B) In terms of reliability, we do not have enough perspective to discuss it objectively but it is a safe bet that it is not as good as non-hybrid vehicles ... And all this has a CO2 cost. ..

Besides the Prius, what hybrid consumer model is planned for the market soon?

CONCLUSION: hybridization does not seem to me the right voice econologically speaking ... and Loremo will be much more econological than any hybrid ... I hate ...

[Woodcutter]

[...] Because hybrid technology will only be able to compensate very little for the biggest defect in reciprocating engines: a very variable efficiency depending on the speed / load.

Well ... this is where in my opinion you are wrong ... Or else you have not followed the latest concepts (and the explanations I have given ...). I have the impression from what you say, that you only take into account the parallel hybrids.
Indeed, on a series hybrid (or a VE with range extender, it's the same ...), the heat engine is only used in the conditions where it is most efficient, ie heavy load and constant regime, the regime of least specific consumption.

[...] So instead of playing the top (ie by doing downsizing, in my opinion the only econological solution because it allows to operate the engine where it is the least worse) the manufacturer prefer s fun making more powerful hybrids by adding electric assistants that don't will never compensate (econologically speaking) and as much as downsizing the defect of bases of the engines quoted above ...

Well, that's already a bit of what is done since, even in existing hybrids (parallel), the engine is smaller and less powerful than the level of performance to which the car claims.
In addition, a downsized motor always has to face transient speeds and variable loads, even if this phenomenon of load variation is less frequent.

[...] At speed stabilized on road and motorway the gain of the hybrids is almost NULL compared to the Hdi ...

I do not know ... It would be necessary to see if for example for PSA hybdrides, the fact of using the 90 hp version of the 1.6 l engine brings something compared to the 110 hp version which is the performance benchmark to be achieved.
In addition, it seems to me all the same that for a given mass and aerodynamics, one cannot indefinitely lower consumption at steady speed on the highway, right?

Finally, if your downsized engine is too weak, you leave the favorable range so you consume more on the highway than with a more vigorous engine (this is the case of the Dacia Logan MCV dCi)

[...] The current hybridization thus consists in increasing the power of the thermal engine and NOT on the contrary the downsizer ...

Well, I don't think so, no. Since these models are supposed to be more upscale, their engine is actually smaller than the competitors ...
However, they are not entirely dedicated to fuel economy.

[...] When the constructor will offer an urban and peri-urban hybrid of 30 to 40 Hp then we will talk about it again. But that does NOT seem to be the current policy! And not even scheduled in the program ... Am I wrong?

What do you know about that ? Are you soothsayer?
In addition, the Cleanova could meet this definition, with a 15 kW thermal engine and an electric of 35 kW.

A) Arf ... I already talked about it and I thought you knew my position on the subject. This is a global CO2 reasoning in relation to this technology. I will re-explain the 1st dash with a practical example:

1) A Prius costs roughly € 10 more than a car of the same class in Hdi.
2) To obtain these 10 000 € the buyer will have to work more.
3) For example if the buyer can save we will say 1000 € per month (which can be done by most Prius buyers I suppose ...), it will take 10 months of work PLUS to pay for the car.
4) These 10 months of work cost doubly in CO2: the work-dodo journey and the rejections of the buyer's work.
Obviously it is very difficult to estimate this CO2 cost (especially for work where it depends on the sector of activity but there are CO2 emissions / € GDP for each country) so let's just estimate on the routes:
- 30 km per day (low average for Paris I suppose)
- 21 working days per month
- km covered in 10 months: 6300 km.

So if the Prius allows a saving of 30% compared to its old vehicle, just on this criterion (professional journey), it will have to be 6300 / 0,3 = 21 km before WINNING THE LOWEST GRAM OF CO000.

Whoa!
Isn't that a bit far fetched from this theory?
I don't frankly agree but hey ...

B) In terms of reliability, we do not have enough perspective to discuss it objectively but it is a safe bet that it is not as good as non-hybrid vehicles ... And all this has a CO2 cost. ..

Compared to a downsized engine, I'm not really sure ... Did you see the complexity of VW's TSI for example?
In addition, you base yourself once again on parallel hybrids, whereas series hybrids do not have to manage complicated parameters on the heat engine. We already talked about it with Targol in a discussion about hybrids and I asked a question that never got answered.

Besides the Prius, what hybrid consumer model is planned for the market soon?

CONCLUSION: hybridization does not seem to me the right voice econologically speaking ... and Loremo will be much more econological than any hybrid ... I hate ...

For your question, I do not know .. Maybe PSA, but they seem to me far too cautious.
In addition, (and I will clarify right away that I like the LOREMO concept a lot, so that some sorrowful spirit can not blame me later), I think you do not realize that the LOREMO is going ask for a real "philosophical" commitment on the part of its buyers.
It is a car which is tiny, which is very light (therefore which will be sensitive to the load) and which will not be able at all to render the services which MrToulemonde expects from his car today.

Conversely, the strength of a current hybrid is that it is completely "invisible" to its user ...
I'm not saying it's good, I'm saying it's like that, for now ...

Finally, and these are aspects that you have completely overlooked, a vehicle with an internal combustion engine alone can neither recover the energy from braking and deceleration (slopes), nor drive in ZEV mode, which will eventually be the norm for the future in city ​​centers.

[nonoLeRobot]

Mouarf arf arf



Points 3 and 4 is really anything, as it suits you !!! Besides, we had already talked about that somewhere.

So guys no longer invest in anything, any investment will pollute, especially not solar or wind heating or insulation. etc.

Especially since I see rather the opposite argument, 10000 euros more (I'm not sure it's the same for equivalent model), it's less money to go to exotic destinations, or even save gas in the car. And then working less is more vacation and leisure and more pollution.

In addition to working more, it can be to develop renewable energies from local shops etc ...

In any case you make us laugh , the only thing that would be interesting to take into account is the energy and the raw material to make the car and the price difference is essentially Research and this is what uses the least energy because in any case the developers would not do that he would do something else, and thinking about it is still the least polluting.

As the lumberjack says it is far-fetched and to put it mildly.

PS: you did well to send me the link we will animate a little :-)