Political ecology by the UMP and the Greens: a joke?

[Christophe]

My dear Nono ... No it's not just anything, because there is another way to invest your money and your leisure activities in:

1) hybrids
2) exotic travel (do you like that that much?)
3) polluting activities ...

What reductive reasoning ...

The gray energy was taken into account in the 1st post I made about hybrids (I forgot it on this occasion, excuse me ...) ... If a hybrid costs more to sell is that part of this cost is energy, isn't it?

I think without much risk of error that a hybrid is therefore not ecologically profitable... at least for now ... and that's it.

The solutions you offer: solar and insulation are precisely much more econologically efficient than buying a hybrid then do not mix everything please... By the way, talk to Rulian about what he thinks of hybrids!

And then another danger: reasoning like "If I have a hybrid I pollute more so I can drive as much as possible ..."

The prius consumes more than our twingo ... what more do you want me to tell you?

ps: for Lumberjack, I do not take your words (I am for some but clearly against others) because by dint of speculating (me like you) we will go round in circles ... When the manufacturers will release a hybrid diesel at the price of an average car (say less than 15 000 €) we will revive the subject ... the fact is that they do not have the slightest intention at the moment ... Just one thing, the Cleanova is not a project of a car manufacturer ...

[nonoLeRobot]

I was only responding to the argument that you put forward more and more often, which is the cost of the hybrid because of the work that it requires and of which I persist, I think the argument is bad.

For the points of the last post, I confess that I do not understand what they mean.

Otherwise from a technical point of view hybrids may not be the panacea, but that does not change the fact that the previous arguments were null.

Otherwise for

And then another danger: reasoning like "If I have a hybrid I pollute more so I can drive as much as possible ..."

I'm one of the biggest supporters, and it's clear that a Twingo is much better than a hybrid, but hey it's absolutely not comparable. And besides, a bicycle is still much better than a twingo even if it is hardly more comparable.

And if the hybrid is not environmentally beneficial, a $ 15 hybrid would be a horror because many more people would. So you have to know if it's not good ecologically, or good but too expensive.

[nonoLeRobot]

Well I close the debate just to say that the price argument is all the same bad times when we see that the equivalent (depending on turbo, it's worth what it's worth) Laguna is more expensive !!!

"Offered at 22.550 euros, the Prius benefits from a government premium of 1524 euros which drops its price to 24.026 euros. The Laguna for its part is displayed at 25.750 euros."

[Targol]

"Offered at 22.550 euros, the Prius benefits from a government premium of 1524 euros which drops its price to 24.026 euros. The Laguna for its part is displayed at 25.750 euros."

If I follow your reasoning: 22550 - 1524 = 24026
YAPABOULETTELA ????

[nonoLeRobot]

Yes I had noticed too, but hey it's a quote, I couldn't change anything ;-)

Anyway, there is far from being 10 euros difference, should not push anyway.

[Christophe]

An image is worth a lot better than a lot of words, that's what we're saying, no?



https://www.econologie.com/le-moteur-a-h ... es-90.html

[Christophe]

Yes I had noticed too, but hey it's a quote, I couldn't change anything ;-)

Anyway, there is far from being 10 euros difference, should not push anyway.

Well, I'm sorry, I thought the Prius was sold for € 30 ...

[Christophe]

30 grams of Carbon per km does that make 44/12 * 30 = 110 g of CO2 / km?

According to the previous image, the gasoline vehicles (not hybrid therefore) of 2020 will therefore consume: 0,110 * 100 / 2,3 = 4,78L / km ...

[Woodcutter]

[...] A) Arf ... I had already spoken about it and I thought that you knew my position on the subject. It is a global CO2 reasoning in relation to this technology. I will re-explain the 1st indent with a practical example:

1) A Prius costs roughly € 10 more than a car of the same class in Hdi.
2) To obtain these 10 000 € the buyer will have to work more.
3) For example if the buyer can save we will say 1000 € per month (which can be done by most Prius buyers I suppose ...), it will take 10 months of work PLUS to pay for the car.
4) These 10 months of work cost doubly in CO2: the work-dodo journey and the rejections of the buyer's work.
Obviously it is very difficult to estimate this CO2 cost (especially for work where it depends on the sector of activity but there are CO2 emissions / € GDP for each country) so let's just estimate on the routes:
- 30 km per day (low average for Paris I suppose)
- 21 working days per month
- km covered in 10 months: 6300 km.

So if the Prius allows a saving of 30% compared to its old vehicle, just on this criterion (professional journey), it will have to be 6300 / 0,3 = 21 km before WINNING THE LOWEST GRAM OF CO000.

Whoa!
Isn't that a bit far fetched from this theory?
I don't frankly agree but hey ...
[...]

That's it, I found what disturbed me yesterday in this theory: credit !!!
An automobile, especially of this price, we buy it on credit, and not when we have enough rounds to do so ...
So there shouldn't be a "lag effect" associated with the extra cost, which is not as high.

By comparing with a C4, (which is 20 cm shorter) we find a difference of € 6600 for strictly equivalent equipment (€ 29 against € 450). And I believe that there is government aid it seems to me ...
EDIT: example of price

[Woodcutter]

[...] ps: for Lumberjack, I do not note your words (I am for some but clearly against others) because by dint of speculating (me like you) we will go round in circles ... When the builders will release a hybrid diesel at the price of an average car (say less than € 15) we will revive the subject ... the fact is that they do not have the slightest intention at the moment ... Just one thing, the Cleanova n is not a project of a car manufacturer ...

There may be things that we "speculate" about (I don't really like this term, let's say that we make reflection assumptions ...)
But on the other hand, I would like you to give me your opinion on what is technical, that is concrete, right?

For your comparison with the Twingo, do you really believe that these are the same niches that are targeted? On the contrary, I find it very good that we can find a car of 4,45 m which consumes as little as one of 3,43 m ... Without hybridization, it is impossible.

Afterwards, if you want to talk about the orientation of the manufacturers' ranges, that's another thing, but I would like you not to condemn a technology only because it is not available in ranges that you would like to find. ..