It was not at all Michelin's speech ...Hic wrote:Gaston wrote:In 2012, at the EVER show in Monaco, I had the opportunity to ride in the prototype produced by Michelin (based on an Opel Agila) with 4 "Active Wheels".
The handling was really exceptional.
The outstanding issues were energy consumption dampers, cost and reliability of the whole.
In doing, they produce energy,
These are linear generators as Telmar brake
After the motor-wheel-the Shock Wheel
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Hard to believe that an active control system can generate energy.Gaston wrote:It was not at all Michelin's speech ...Hic wrote:In fact, they produce energy,
they are linear generators like the Telma brake
That said, the Telma system could, if it were associated with a storage system, recover the energy it dissipates under braking to reinject it to acceleration.
The suspension of the active wheel consumes energy instead of producing ...
For example, some econologists have observed that a breakdown of traction control decreases the consumption of the vehicle ...
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citro wrote:That said, the Telma system could, if it were associated with a storage system, recover the energy it dissipates under braking to reinject it to acceleration.
Finally the Telma Brake, it is mostly done to dissipate energy by eddy currents, to make it produce energy, it must be a lot of changes .... not sure that it is a good basis.
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
Yes, I meant that the idea of adding an electrical system (or mechanical) on the drive shaft remains valid for heavy goods vehicles.
An electrical system comprising, in place of the Telma module, a motor / generator connected to a buffer storage system on a battery or super-capacitor would be even a good starting block for after-sale hybridization systems.
Some friends worked a few years ago on a system of this type but mechanical with a flywheel. On a garbage collection truck, the consumption gain reached 30% ... But they had to stop their research by order of their respective hierarchies. At the head of the project were engineers from the Urban Community, the Faculty and Aerospace ...
Their kinetic energy accumulator (flywheel) has since become a commercial product at a trammway manufacturer that has marketed it, especially in the Netherlands or on 1 formulas and racing cars or it is better known as KERS.
An electrical system comprising, in place of the Telma module, a motor / generator connected to a buffer storage system on a battery or super-capacitor would be even a good starting block for after-sale hybridization systems.
Some friends worked a few years ago on a system of this type but mechanical with a flywheel. On a garbage collection truck, the consumption gain reached 30% ... But they had to stop their research by order of their respective hierarchies. At the head of the project were engineers from the Urban Community, the Faculty and Aerospace ...
Their kinetic energy accumulator (flywheel) has since become a commercial product at a trammway manufacturer that has marketed it, especially in the Netherlands or on 1 formulas and racing cars or it is better known as KERS.
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citro wrote:Some friends worked a few years ago on a system of this type but mechanical with a flywheel.
[...]
Their kinetic energy accumulator (flywheel) has since become a commercial product at a trammway manufacturer that has marketed it, especially in the Netherlands or on 1 formulas and racing cars or it is better known as KERS.
It seemed to me that the 1 formula used a battery for their KERS and not a flywheel.
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Solar Production + VE + VAE = short cycle electricity
The 2 systems have been developed.
The literature I consulted on the question seemed to say that the 2 systems had been experimented, but maybe the 1 Formula only used the electric versions of the KERS.
A Bordeaux battery company specializes in assembling "electric KERS" for F1 teams ...
Each copy is charged the trifle of half a million € ...
The literature I consulted on the question seemed to say that the 2 systems had been experimented, but maybe the 1 Formula only used the electric versions of the KERS.
A Bordeaux battery company specializes in assembling "electric KERS" for F1 teams ...
Each copy is charged the trifle of half a million € ...
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- Grelinette
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- x 272
citro wrote:...
On a garbage collection truck, the consumption gain reached 30% ... But they had to stop their research by order of their respective hierarchies. At the head of the project were engineers from the Urban Community, the Faculty and Aerospace ...
Their kinetic energy accumulator (flywheel) has since become a commercial product at a trammway manufacturer that has marketed it, especially in the Netherlands or on 1 formulas and racing cars or it is better known as KERS.
It seems, there are many systems to recover some of the kinetic energy on a moving vehicle: suspension, braking or acceleration ...
We have often mentioned them on this forumand according to their inventors these systems would make substantial savings.
Curiously, these systems remain confidential and do not seem to interest the industries of general public products!
Maybe they are too heavy economically, and therefore not profitable? (patents too expensive? System inducing too many changes in current manufacturing chains, commercial (political) strategies? ...)
(I discreetly bounce on this kinetic energy recovery technology to make a link with these recent projects of kinetic flywheel energy storage farm equipment that we discussed on econology: https://www.econologie.com/forums/materiels- ... 13225.html
or this one: https://www.econologie.com/forums/machines-a ... 13564.html
sorry if it trolle a little the initial subject ... )
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Project of the horse-drawn-hybrid - The project econology
"The search for progress does not exclude the love of tradition"
"The search for progress does not exclude the love of tradition"
No.
It is simply that the public does not know that these systems exist: see TER or Metro. Whether it's Bombardier or Alstom, new trains recover energy when braking.
All that is needed is an adapted operation to make this equipment profitable: frequent stops / starts ... In short, a lot of "jolts" ... On a regular, smooth operation, this does nothing.
Ex presentation of the new Alstom Strasbourg-Kehl metro:
The new generation MF01 metro will reduce the time of interchange in station (wide corridors and intercirculations). In addition, it consumes 30% less energy than a conventional metro, according to Alstom, thanks to the improved performance of the power train and its electric braking system with energy recovery.
Presentation of TER Bombardier 2N Region:
Designed to optimize its environmental impact (permanent magnet motors and high efficiency reducers, braking energy recovery, aerodynamics ...), the train components also have a recycling rate greater than 95%.
Virtually all high-performance electric or hybrid cars recover energy under braking to store and re-use it.
It is simply that the public does not know that these systems exist: see TER or Metro. Whether it's Bombardier or Alstom, new trains recover energy when braking.
All that is needed is an adapted operation to make this equipment profitable: frequent stops / starts ... In short, a lot of "jolts" ... On a regular, smooth operation, this does nothing.
Ex presentation of the new Alstom Strasbourg-Kehl metro:
The new generation MF01 metro will reduce the time of interchange in station (wide corridors and intercirculations). In addition, it consumes 30% less energy than a conventional metro, according to Alstom, thanks to the improved performance of the power train and its electric braking system with energy recovery.
Presentation of TER Bombardier 2N Region:
Designed to optimize its environmental impact (permanent magnet motors and high efficiency reducers, braking energy recovery, aerodynamics ...), the train components also have a recycling rate greater than 95%.
Virtually all high-performance electric or hybrid cars recover energy under braking to store and re-use it.
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You're wrong, storage is not a problem.Gaston wrote:The main problem of energy recovery is the storage of recovered energy.
For trains, metros and other trams, it is simpler: we simply reinject energy into the network where it is instantly consumed by other trains.
Trains (TGV in the lead), METRO, Tramways are equipped for a long time with storage batteries ...
It is even the goodwill of a famous Bordeaux company, SAFT.
Thanks to these very profitable markets, the company has developed Nickel Cadmium accumulators with a lifespan of up to 25ans ...
Currently the company manufactures lithium batteries and their management electronics for the most demanding applications (military, space ...). They are also found on some electric vehicles, but this overly competitive market is not the favorite of this company.
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