Ökofen - Unusual (advertising photomontage)

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Did67
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by Did67 » 24/01/11, 09:07

manitou22 wrote:
Okofen like other high-end (fröhling, guntamatic and so on) manufactures machines full of qualities: robustness, reliability, adaptability, performance, but these machines present an insurmountable flaw for a large number of potential customers, they are too complex. The average customer who wants a renewable energy boiler will quickly be overwhelmed with a machine made for technicians. it's time for "plug and play" or else people go their way. In the same vein, a complex regulation associating several energies in an individual heating will make your house unmarketable if you have to part with it.

Voili, voilo
A+


1) I still have some explanations for Alain G. Too busy this weekend. I will come back to the so-called complexity of these machines and the regulation by motorized V3V / external probe ... So those who are interested, we will deal / discuss this question.

2) I "also" partly agree with you. On the "plug and play" issue.

I note however that even on a "plug and play" machine, we have to configure, download, etc ... [I'm talking about software, skype, facebook - which I don't use, so I could be wrong ; but it seems to me that there are also a lot of check marks ...]

3) But I would say that the problem is above all and above all the fact that professionals do not master, because they pass without more training from the gas or fuel boiler to the pellet chuaidère much more complex.

4) This results in disappointed users.

The problem is known to the best brands (Okofen for example - I have been in contact with the head office several times on obvious "errors" of certain "professionals", who confirmed it to me).

5) Alas, we are in an emerging market in France. So if some heating engineers (mine for example) have good control, others find out.

In addition to this, people call themselves "heating engineers" who are sometimes only plumbers. The piping is fine (although we have also seen V3Vs mounted upside down), but as soon as it comes to circuits, connections, probes, electronic board, it gets tough!

Yes, this is unfortunate.

6) The settings are not that complex! The proof, take the wires with MOREA or with Neek-O. Despite their rough side (obviously, we are several stakeholders, we have different opinions), and despite the distance, we quickly identified the problem and improved things.

Dhaulagiri is a very typical case. Starting from a machine very badly configured, with 12-minute cycles, it found itself very quickly with correct configuration and spectacular improvement in performance (45-minute cycles). And still, he did not follow the method suggested to him to the letter, wanting to do too many things too quickly! [I hope not to upset him! because if I give a damn to everyone on the back!]

What we did remotely, in confusion, any good professional should be able to do on the day of the start! I say "SHOULD" [or we have the modesty not to call ourselves "professional" or worse, "technician"]

Should we blame the boilers or these "professionals"?

7) Above all, "incheatable" houses will be unsaleable, ie poorly insulated houses and those heated with energies whose prices will skyrocket. In my opinion.

I think I can sell my quiet house. My "biomass" heating seems rather a plus! My boiler, you press the green button. It is configured. Let’s admit that unfortunately it explodes: it will have to be replaced, but the heating engineer would have to be a pure jerk not to resume the settings!

Two things can, however, change with a new owner: the scheduling schedules (which are quite clear - that's not what we come up against) or, in the event of a change in the insulation (works), the parameters of the slope (a little more difficult at first, but here too, quite easy).

Frankly, I am serene.
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dhaulagiri
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by dhaulagiri » 24/01/11, 10:59

And still, he did not follow the method suggested to him to the letter, wanting to do too many things too quickly! [I hope not to upset him! because if I give a damn to everyone on the back!]


I confirm but I have a mitigating circumstance: my wife : Lol:

For the rest, when a company innovates, it offers new technologies, at the cutting edge, which require an effort of adaptation at all levels of the chain, from the personnel of the company itself to the customers, passing by installers. From this point of view, the boiler sector is like any other.

Those who agree to make this effort a priori will never use the term "complex". The others, followers or not of plug-and-play (which I do not believe in the field of IT in which I work anyway), yes.
Except that there are markets where the consumers that we are are a little more forgiving. Example: When you buy a car with a whole bunch of options, you'll make the effort to learn how to use your new toys without ever wondering whether it's complicated or not to use them. The speed limiter, the cruise control (these are not the same things), the GPS and whatnot. The same goes for computers, mentioned by Did: look around you at the disappointments of some who are looking at their new computers, saying: "it's progress, we have to get started". For a boiler, people are less forgiving. Go find out why, because it's fundamentally no different.

Since installing my boiler, I have never had the impression of being a slave to it and the time I spend there is above all a pleasure. I also said that we were finally not far from plug and play: the installer plugged in and pressed a button and the machine started to heat up. And it was in the house the temperature requested. It was only by digging a little, by rummaging here that I thought it was possible to better adjust the material. I could never have asked myself anything, go on like this and be happy. It is a matter of point of view.

This is also why Dede's remarks are inappropriate: the people who come to this forum belong to the first category that I mentioned at the beginning: those who want to make the effort. Useless to talk to them about complexity, to tell them that it sucks and that it was better before, because either they have already put their hands in the sludge and now help others (Did, Dirk, Manet and the others), or they are ready to do it (I am). Strictly speaking, it would be wiser to go and stand near the Ökofen stand at the next fair in the area and discourage potential customers by taking a stand against the brand's sales representative. I am sure that he will be able to do it: one is necessarily talented for the chat when one is able, in a thread on an unusual advertisement for boiler to tackle big subjects like the scandal of the Pick and poverty in the world. Be careful not to mix everything, we are not at the bistro!
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by manet42 » 24/01/11, 12:52

What would be nice would be to be able to delete on his computer messages you don't want to read on a post ... it would save time and avoid controversy. :D

Confirmation:
I started computing very late (57 years old) I struggled with pleasure, it continues with each new software! I found the same thing with the boiler :P

JC
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by Did67 » 24/01/11, 13:47

dhaulagiri wrote:
I also said that we were finally not far from plug and play: the installer plugged in and pressed a button and the machine started to heat up. And it was in the house the temperature requested. It was only by digging a little, by rummaging here that I thought it was possible to better adjust the material. I could never have asked myself anything, go on like this and be happy. It is a matter of point of view.



Yes, you are right to specify it (even if, due to inadequate settings, some were cold!).

In addition, I compared us to "tuners" ... Who is hurting to want to optimize our machines?
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by dedeleco » 24/01/11, 13:52

It does not seem that some rich, able to afford an Okof, already scammed by a boiler difficult to control with basic errors, are concerned about commercial scams, without limits especially since people are poor !!

If it is not them, however, it will be their children who will suffer !!

These are poor dead scammed !!!


The process is the same: on take advantage of their weakness and ignorance not to explain and conceal the essentials of the dangers, of their poverty, to sell cheap, dangerous, with a lark mirror, which traps them !!

How 35 years after having scammed me, we can sell hypocritically again, uninsulated boilers, without saying it in the instructions or at sellers, and requiring for safety an air inlet of 54m3 / h which cools and costs too much in waste heat for the poor (yield declared falsely misleading), which will therefore close these excessive vents and therefore if not lucky, will be among the 300 dead asphyxiated by carbon monoxide CO per year, and insurance and professionals do not care, declared not responsible, hypocritically, because they did not respect the standards and DTU (secret since to have the exact detailed text you have to pay much more than their boiler), absurd since it takes an air supply and cool the house before heating it! !

Another scam, is not to say on the instructions and the selling sites, that this type of boiler is not isolated, that the output is misleading, that it should not be installed in a non-habitable room, since the heat is lost, nor in a room already heated by radiators, because it will be too hot!


What surprises me is that the scammers do not protest, do not act, to change things, most of the time, the poorer and weaker they are!

It is the same hypocritical method of concealment and deception, which kills millions of deaths, for trash food, which makes one sick the poorer, obesity epidemic, diabetes for half of the Americans in 2020 planned, etc. .. hypocritical drugs for these overweight diabetics who by using them for all the slightly fat with thousands of dead and sick, allowed Servier to make a fortune !!

GMOs, pesticides and herbicides, chemicals, asbestos, radioactivity, food irradiation, general garbage food everywhere, etc. same hypocrisy and deception with the manufacturer alone doing the danger studies without any independent test and sanctions provided for the rare scientists who are too curious !!

So you have to be aware of the mechanisms of scams, deception by concealment, always the same, which end with millions of deaths!

I'm scared of the law of silence that scammers apply on themselves, most of the time like asking me to shut up or censor myself too, just when I only make visible the contradictions with humor, by reproducing their own writings of scammers become shadoks pumping on the settings so absurd !!

Finally, when concerned, I happened to protest in the stands and shops with force and I still await trial 35 years later !!

Our increasingly technical society becomes a non-technical scam society, with no limits !!

Finally reflect a little more, on what is a real regulation and not the scam of a false regulation with heating curve !!
It's as simple as driving a car, with the instinctive regulation of our eyes and our brain to stay on the road and where we don't use a driving curve instead of the heating curve !! (even with GPS eyes closed!)

Finally for the one, "galereur with pleasure", who asks for automatic censorship, il just have to program a censorship program on his computer to sell it to the Chinese, and other non-democratic countries, if it is better than the ones they already use !!
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by manet42 » 24/01/11, 20:04

Dede wrote:
finally for the one, "galéreur with pleasure", who asks for automatic censorship,

Réponse:

Poor asshole, I do not ask for automatic censorship, I ask to be able to delete on my computer and only there for the other posts your delusions of the mentally ill.

Jc (not angry at all but realistic)
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by dedeleco » 24/01/11, 22:35

manet42:
Insults and contradictions !!!
Poor idiot
your delusions of the mentally ill.

contradict
not angry at all


Reality annoys !!!
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by Alain G » 24/01/11, 22:57

: Shock:

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by Did67 » 24/01/11, 23:26

manet42 wrote:
Poor asshole, I do not ask for automatic censorship, I ask to be able to delete on my computer and only there for the other posts your delusions of the mentally ill.



Do not annoy you, I think it was me because I suggested to Christophe to take his responsibilities on the Okofenophiles' wires trying to make the best use of our boilers and where we don't have to worry "wear out the nerves" by those who are not interested.

With the exception of this thread, which we said it was dedéléco!
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by Did67 » 24/01/11, 23:28

@AlainG

I answered you and kept my promise on the other thread ...

Kind regards.
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