sustainability of ethanol fuel?

[chatelot16]

1) I have nothing against you in particular. I contribute, with my reflection, to the title "ecological viability of fuel ethanol".

the title has been changed and returns to the polemical side

my goal is not to talk about the ecological validity of current ethanol production ... but to talk about multi-fuel engine technology

Of course, in Brazil, they already have methanol-powered cars ... they know very well that all electro-injection cars have to run on ethanol at no extra cost.

in France when an electronic injection does not work the ethanol is that the manufacturer does not care about us and has voluntarily limited ... and it makes money for those who sell adaptation kits that should to be useless

those who buy new gasoline cars must only buy clearly specified models that accept ethanol ... it costs nothing more and can be used

or rather if the manufacturer says that it would cost more to make an ethanol version, it is a sign that its only gasoline engine is of poor quality: do not buy it

[Did67]

the title has been changed and returns to the polemical side

my goal is not to talk about the ecological validity of current ethanol production ... but to talk about multi-fuel engine technology

OKAY. I did not know.

I leave you then. Without interest for me (in general, I do not think that the problems facing our societies are of a purely technical nature, it is a question of making choices, of opening our eyes, without doubt having values ​​and make sense ...).

[Christophe]

the title has been changed and returns to the polemical side

my goal is not to talk about the ecological validity of current ethanol production ... but to talk about multi-fuel engine technology

Sorry mea culpa but your original message (you edited it later) seemed to me to concern the issue of eco-balance ... economic and ecological ... more than carburizing engine ...

We can change it (the title) if you want to ...

[chatelot16]

I only edited the first message for some big misspelling ... I avoid editing the message to change the content it would make incomprehensible discusion

my first title of the kind ethanol fuel? with its point of interogation could have already been badly chosen

what title to put?

it's the same story as the electric car, with a very interesting subject, for or against the electric car: there is not to be for or against ... otherwise there are some who will be against saying that it walk to nuclear power ... you have to let people know how much it can be used properly when it's useful ... and useful information has accumulated in this subject, regardless of its title

[I Citro]

it's the same story as the electric car, with a very interesting subject, for or against the electric car: there is not to be for or against ... otherwise there are some who will be against saying that it walk to nuclear power ... you have to let people know how much it can be used properly when it's useful ... and useful information has accumulated in this subject, regardless of its title

Yes, it's comparable.
The problem of the electric car is: its development must go hand in hand with the development of renewable energies.
Those who say they are against the electric car are either retrograde refusing an evolution as inevitable as the end of horse-drawn traction 100 years ago, or corporatists defending their precarious (which amounts to the same)

In the case of alternative fuels, the problem is twofold:
1 / What is the REAL CO2 and environmental footprint of these fuels, including the amount of oil needed to make X liters of these fuels. In the case of the sugar beet industry, it was rumored that making one liter of ethanol consumed 1.51 of diesel fuel.

2 / what is the best use of these fuels ...

As far as I am concerned, the use of combustion engines is to be avoided because it is not a solution for the future. Using electricity is 2 times better (at least).

However, using ethanol or methanol in fuel cells is an option for powering electric cars.

In short, as much Pantone research, cold fusion, and other hydrogen generators is to consider for the existing machine park, as much must be made a break on the use of the combustion engine for all current uses (automobile, and road transport) , public works, agriculture, motorhome farming).

Did you know, for example, that at the beginning of the XNIXXth century, there were electric plowing machines much higher than current tractors ...

[chatelot16]

I saw yesterday in the news that an ethanol production plant with wheat was built thanks to subsidies, and abandoned because it is unprofitable

this is not the problem of ethanol ... it's the problem of incompetence

no interference on the fuel cell: methanol does not use all the energy methanol but only hydrogen ... the energy of the methanol carbon is lost in heat and CO2

worse it requires very pure methanol not to definitely poison the fuel cell

the efficiency of fuel cells is never very good: it is sometimes worse than a good old engine 100 times cheaper

to make a good battery performance requires a very large electrode area ... just use the large area to store energy and invent the battery ... and avoid storing the hydrogen

I see no future in the fuel cell for vehicles: the batteries are the

the 2 opposite solution are: heavy battery but good performance ... thermal engine poor performance but very light and cheap ... it will cohabit long

I do not see what the fuel cell can do, at the same time, poor efficiency, and heavy!

the fuel cell is rather a trap to c .. expensive studies that never end

[I Citro]

the fuel cell is rather a trap to c .. expensive studies that never end

Yes, this is how the Fuel Cell and the hydrogen sector are perceived by the experts.
I'm not far from thinking the same thing, when we know that the hydrogen industry was used to torpedo the electric car in the middle of 90 anées, and that we know its performance, 4 times less than electricity, so less efficient than gasoline ...

In 1900, while more electric cars than petrol cars were circulating in Paris and New York, it was said that the future was electric car ... The following century has wronged the experts of the time. ..

The coming energy challenges are numerous and the solutions that will make it possible to meet them are certainly not known today.
Chemistry, biotechnology, nanotechnology, ... Where will come the innovation (s) that will revolutionize the energy sector.

[Macro]

If if it interests me ... the mob of minimacrocrado is a motor mbk malaguti .. I have already noticed the problems of start and idle by putting him E10 (7.40% ethannol the rest sp95)

it is original (cylinder fuel tank) visibly cleanly debridized and works great with E5 in separate original lubrication .. The derbi is equipped with what engine (morini or malagutti) ...

The E85 could be a more econological solution for this vehicle which does not roll a lot but only on displacements exceeding the 10km ... I still have a fear because the machine is almost new (2500km) and this is no toys given ...

And I say econological. cheaper and even so strongly deny more renewable than petrol.

[chatelot16]

my particular case is precisely that it worked badly with the essence: too rich, and that it becomes good with the ethanol

in the normal case of gasoline, it will become ethanol-poor: good for tightening the piston!

for an 2 too poor time is much more serious than too rich

I noticed that some generator or lawn mower are a bit too rich: it works better with a little ethanol in gasoline than pure gasoline: the mixture with ethanol is a way to look for optimum wealth without changing the nozzle

I do not know what's in E10, logically if I put E10 in place of E85 it should work less than gasoline ... bin no, the E10 works much worse than the gasoline ... there is something else, we are not told everything ... there must be in addition to 10% ethanol an aditif to better resemble gasoline and has a weird side effect on 2

[Christophe]

Yes, this is how the Fuel Cell and the hydrogen sector are perceived by the experts.

There are plenty of experts for many years on econology then