The HVP-C: pure vegetable oil fuel and the law

[Other]

Hello Radasse 2000

I'll answer you tonight (I have a book on a reliable engine, more reliable than you fall in the Roolls)
And yet with all the French technology, you are not yet ready to replace old engines like this one.
Even Renault has tried and it does not succeed, why?


I'm going to explain to you old engine and reliability and also to explain to you if a breakdown does not matter? and also helical and dynamometric key
you take us for cellars! this piston is mounted in a motor ceraminil it is 123 mm diameter!
Know that the threads of candles or injector do not piss when you clamp them, but when you take them out.

Andre

[antoinet111]

I may be a troll but in terms of cleanup I touch my ball unlike many people on this forum apparently!

slim and you still have not understood:

if we take oil and gas reserves, we eject particles (CO2) into the atmosphere. in this case there is an imbalance between absorption and production in the ecosystem;

in the case of use on an old blunderbuss (dixit radasse2000 on a vito 220 cdi 100% HVB) a truly biological fuel (hvp, hvb, do not understand teep, emhv, biodiesel, commercial diester) so as the sampling is done in the ecosystem (The plant needs a lot of carbon to synthesize its own organic matter through photosynthesis) and rejection is done in nature. the balance is balanced.

what do you think?


you can create as many anti-pollution standards as you want, and clean your engines as much as you want, I repeat, you should not resonate from a "out of the box" point of view but of course on a larger global scale.

[petromax]

Hello Radasse2000
Not being a follower of spanking (each his thing), I would however allow myself some observations

2 For oily (your reference apparently in terms of mechanics), it's a crisis of laughter!
I read "the EGR valve is used to lower the combustion temperature, but for HVB, we need to increase it, the solution is to plug it". This is "world champion", guys do not even ask the question of why we are trying to lower the temperature of the combustion! Answer, Nox production increases exponentially with increasing temperature in the chamber. Basically with HVB and this type of assembly, you will create a lot more Nox. Nox is a pretty funny gas because it is carcinogenic. But hey, according to you, it's not a pollutant ...

It would be quite honest to me to say that reducing the combustion temperature by recycling exhaust gases, if it decreases Nox increases HC production and degrades the engine performance (light overconsumption).
I do not dispute the harmfulness of Nox, but the EGR valve is not for me a panacea.
Not "touching my ball" in matters of depollution, you can certainly give me your opinion on the compatibility between HVB and post-treatment of Nox (Urea injection, AD-Blue), that interests me.
These devices are only equipped for the moment that the engines of trucks (bp setting T ° C, and engine load) but there are apparently also some problems with the FAP on VP.

3 Regarding the use of HVB in a modern engine, even they recommend not to exceed 5%! In this case, just do not put anything! Especially in parallel, a drain all 5000km is recommended (normally 20000) after which recylces the oil? Who pollutes?
When those who switch to 30% and breaks their engine under warranty, they take good care not to say it so they do not have to pay the price. Nice example of responsibility! I really appreciated the testimony of the guy who breaks his turbo then his engine with 30% of HVB and who believes that it is not because of the fuel.
While the phenomenon is clear:
HVB> degradation of the segmentation> oil consumption + dilution of HVB in the oil> degradation of the mechanical properties of the oil> Breakage of the turbo (a turbo turns on hydraulic bearing at more than 200000rpm and reaches T ° above 800 ° C which makes it an extremely sensitive organ!)> Shortly after excessive oil consumption (there the segments have indeed given up the ghost)> engine change at Renault's expense!
Congratulations HVB and congratulations the good faith of the owner! Fortunately for him the incidentology did not require an analysis of oil and fuel!

I do not see what would be ridiculous to incorporate 5% of HVB in diesel by promoting a short circuit circuit.

Is it less ridiculous to incorporate 5,75% of this same esterified oil into colossal factories paid for by the taxpayer by rolling a quantity of trucks, reserving the margin to the large agricultural cooperatives associated with the tankers. All this of course by continuing to make pay the taxpayer (still him) agricultural fallows, while technically there is no difference?

For HVB dilution in engine oil, please inquire about FUCHS Plantomot 5W40 or PANOLIN Biomot 5W40. Learn also about the nanofiltration of engine oil (KLEENOIL for example).
While you are there, learn about the work of Elsbett, VWP, ...
To be as categorical as you are, it would be necessary to know a little more the subject seems to me it.
Your ignorance of the work done on the HVB Beyond Rhine is uplifting (even appalling).

With cordiality

[zac]

Hello

I will try to explain to him (if it is an engineer it is fucked it is formatted, excuse christophe).

you take an island (randomly) in the Indian Ocean. the Americanized population feeds on fries and macdo.

9 finished fryer oil both times on 10 in an uncontrolled landfill and then is burned in pure waste or finished in the ground or at sea.

during this time we import at great expense (shitty) oil and we reject a 2eme shit shit in the admosphere.

cons such as me and my friends, we recover these oils and we rotate our vehicle (with more pantones).

pollution: a little co², some nox, a little co and still will prove it to me.

gain: thousands of liters of oil that does not leave in nature, oil that stays underground, less transport; engines with more torque more enjoyable to use and more reliable.
so vehicles later reformed (gray energy).

then open your eyes loose your test bench (which in any case does not mean anything on a car engine), even if your Euro 4 / 5 or 12 vehicles do not polish at all with their pots they will still poll more with their manufacture and the infrastructure to make them roll.

Finally one last point the super vehicle that we lay our dear European manufacturer is impossible to roll on 80 / 100 of the planet is great a computer that manages everything but when the first diagnostic case and the competent guy are 10000km you what is expensive engine manufacturer when it breaks down?

@+

[Radasse2000]

small calculation:
either a rapeseed field capable of absorbing 1 tonne of CO² from this field oil is extracted to make 0,5 tonnes of CO² (regardless of the absorption / production ratio, this ratio will be simplified). To transform rapeseed into oil, we use energy so we produce CO² or "x" tonnes. Assuming that we only use this bio fuel, the CO² absorption balance for this field is as follows:
1-0.5-x-0 = 0.5-x tons absorbed

In a case where one cultivates the same field and that one does not transform rapeseed and that one consumes fossil fuel in the place, one obtains the following balance:
1 ton absorbed by the field
0 ton produced by oil
0.5 ton from fossil fuel
However, the energy required to extract fossil fuel is three times less than that used to treat rapeseed, which leads to a CO² production of "x / 3"
the balance sheet is as follows:
1-0-x/3-0.5=0.5-x/3 tonnes absorbées

Now if we make the difference between the two solutions we get:
2 * x / 3 in tons of CO² less in the atmosphere for the second hypothesis (rape culture without transformation into oil and use of fossil fuel)
And yes ... that's how it happens if you really take things globally ...

you take an island (randomly) in the Indian Ocean. the Americanized population feeds on fries and macdo.

9 finished fryer oil both times on 10 in an uncontrolled landfill and then is burned in pure waste or finished in the ground or at sea.

during this time we import at great expense (shitty) oil and we reject a 2eme shit shit in the admosphere.

cons such as me and my friends, we recover these oils and we rotate our vehicle (with more pantones).

How is your electricity on your island already? You'd better burn this oil in power plants or it will be used more efficiently and with better performance than in a vehicle.

Is it less ridiculous to incorporate 5,75% of this same esterified oil into colossal factories paid for by the taxpayer by rolling a quantity of trucks, reserving the margin to the large agricultural cooperatives associated with the tankers. All this of course by continuing to make pay the taxpayer (still him) agricultural fallows, while technically there is no difference?

I never said that doing bio fuel to run at 5,75% was a good idea!
For fallows, they can be useful for land renewal. In addition, you should know that in France, if you wanted to switch to 100% bio fuel, agricultural areas including fallow land would be just enough. But it would require to go for food elsewhere, or tighten your belt!

For HVB dilution in engine oil, please inquire about FUCHS Plantomot 5W40 or PANOLIN Biomot 5W40. Learn also about the nanofiltration of engine oil (KLEENOIL for example).
While you are there, learn about the work of Elsbett, VWP, ...
To be as categorical as you are, it would be necessary to know a little more the subject seems to me it.
Your ignorance of the work done on the HVB Beyond Rhine is uplifting (even appalling).

I do not have a pb with that either, but when you roll to the HVB and you dilute your oil little by little, do you know for a moment what is your rate of dillution? Where are your lubricant qualities? NO! Whereas when you integrate a part voluntarily in the constitution of your oil, you do not have this problem.

And I do not want to spend my life explaining BA-BA ecological cycles.

It's normal you do not understand anything either ...

Know that the threads of candles or injector do not piss when you clamp them, but when you take them out.

It is clear that when you tighten like a brute after it is harder to remove ...

I do not see what would be ridiculous to incorporate 5% of HVB in diesel by promoting a short circuit circuit.

Incorporate 5% of oil if it is to divide the drain intervals not 4 I'm not sure that the environment is found (especially when we see what is made of the most waste oil) cases ...)

It would be quite honest to me to say that reducing the combustion temperature by recycling exhaust gases, if it decreases Nox increases HC production and degrades the engine performance (light overconsumption).

The increase in HC is relatively negligible compared to the decrease in NOx. When the engine performance, you must know what you want to polish less or drive fast. Do not be fooled if no manufacturer, managed to do without EGR valve is that there is a reason!

Not "touching my ball" in matters of depollution, you can certainly give me your opinion on the compatibility between HVB and post-treatment of Nox (Urea injection, AD-Blue), that interests me.
These devices are only equipped for the moment that the engines of trucks (bp setting T ° C, and engine load) but there are apparently also some problems with the FAP on VP.

The molecules created by combustion in HVB or GO are the same. the treatment is therefore identical. Only the processes of regeneration of Noxtrap are different because the HVB produce more and it is necessary to reign more often.

These devices are only equipped for the moment that the engines of trucks (bp setting T ° C, and engine load) but there are apparently also some problems with the FAP on VP.

To date only Mercedes has released a Noxtrap in series, the Renault is coming. There is indeed an impact on the FAPé engines because it is necessary to be able to reconcile all the strategies of regeneration of the two components. The fact of having to generate CO to regenerate the Nox trap also has the effect of generating particles clogging the FAP ... And yes the development is complicated ...

Finally one last point the super vehicle that we lay our dear European manufacturer is impossible to roll on 80 / 100 of the planet is great a computer that manages everything but when the first diagnostic case and the competent guy are 10000km you what is expensive engine manufacturer when it breaks down?

The "Western" countries for which these vehicles are intended have the necessary infrastructure for diagnosis so no worries for the majority of vehicles. As for Asia, it will not be long. As for emerging countries, less modern engines are also planned, they nevertheless constitute significant progress in terms of consumption and pollution control compared to the antiques currently used in these countries!

I will try to explain to him (if it is an engineer it is fucked it is formatted, excuse christophe).

I like the way you catalog! After it is me that we find limited!

[abyssin3]

Radasse2000,
You're right on toute line ! And what knowledge you are showing to us all, who have been looking at it for years and have never seen such evidence right in front of us!

The subject is closed and this discussion can stop leaves. It was a pleasure!




And if you look for other infos do not hesitate to go on http://www.lettres.net/troll.htm in your intervaux break

[Cuicui]

Hello, Radasse 2000
What do you think is better,
- produce some fossil CO2 that will accumulate in the atmosphere and increase the greenhouse effect
- to produce more CO2 from the combustion of rapeseed oil, CO2 which will be regularly recycled by the new rapeseed plantations, avoiding accumulation?

[Other]

Hello the engine

1

For the andré piston, I must admit (it will probably make you happy) I have never seen this kind of break before. Maybe because I only work on modern and reliable engines! As such I'm kidding when on one side you told me that modern engines are not reliable and that on the other, you do not stop breaking pistons on your antiques! But hey it's probably that as everyone knows, breaking a piston is not a serious breakdown!
It's a bit like the blow of screwing in tight candles! There is a tool called a torque wrench that is very useful for remedying these problems. The other is the reflection that leads to the conclusion that it is useless to tighten 50N.m a candle!

Before letting go of this subject, I'm going to tell you where the piston comes from, not for you, you know too much about engines for us.
It is a Lycoming O290 engine piston d2 engine 4 air-cooled flat cylinders that develops 140 hp has 2800 rpm and 135 hp has 2600 rpm
it is a segment that broke due to a wear matting of the grooves after use in overspeed 2800 rpm this problem occurs. This engine consumes 1 liter of oil at 4 hour and it is normal in aviation, on the radial pump 1 liter per hour!
You have to know that these antique engines, all the French plane fleet works with Lycoming or Continental. Are we still waiting for the Renault diesel engine? or the perfection of the Potez
Fortunately you have two bretons (Serge Pennec) who know how to build and use old diesel engines generation on beautiful aircraft well done.
As you say break a piston is not a serious breakdown, I do not know if you had been sitting next to me when it happened you would laugh so much, 30 km of wood to cross before finding a favorable place, it That's when I talk about reliability, an engine that continues to run at half speed even with a valve falling into it.
In practice, these engines must be disassembled at all 800hours and sometimes less to measure the wear of the segments, and valve eventually change piston is segment ..
on these motors all the holes threaded in the aluminum are helicoidal, and the candles must be disassembled at least once a year or at 50 hours and tight to the torque wrench, if you leave a candle tight for several years risk of tearing the nets, so tell me more dynamometric key and stop thinking that everyone works like blacksmiths, we live in the woods but we have tools!

Initially with the photos of piston that I posted you would have to diagnose a motor which consumes a lot of oil, a broken segment and gorges mattées (one did not ask where the piston comes from)
but these details the guy who is brooming around the test bench will have diagnosed him.
For me you only work on antipolution syteme,

Now, for the ERG valve, we do not want to be wild, because I live next to Abenakis, we know what it is for and what it does. This has existed since the 75 years in America.
On a diesel that has many miles and a little wear and tear the builders take out the breather in the intake which makes a jam in the intake manifold with exhaust ERG valve (you have not often had a clean a tub!) That's right, I forgot you work with new engines.

Reassure you it does not exceed my skills! In your opinion why on a panton, the TAVT (temperature before turbine) is lower? Is it due to a phenomenon of evaporation of water? And would this evaportaion be possible that it generates gases? And these gases would it be possible that they generate a pressure on the piston?
So yes the panton system helps to recover energy and reduce consumption! But no, it is not less pungent! The water vapor in the cylinder degrades the combustion and generates particles, CO (deadly gas) and an extremely high rate of HC (unburned)! In addition it prevents the operation of the catalyst and the particle filter! If this system has never been put into production it is more pollutant

!

To affirm this, have you made any measurements on a panton that works? first you have to use a panton that walks before making measurements, and for me to make one work it has not been an easy way and still sometimes it does not work.
As for the pollution I would not pronounce on this subject I have no competence in this area, but you look on you. that it pollutes more, do you have references? numbers ?

The water vapor in the cylinder degrades combustion and generates particles

,

it's true, the same thing when you put too much exhaust gas with the ERG but when you put the right amount of steam in the engine I'm far from convinced that it degrades the combustion or that it engenders more imbrulements . On a gasoline engine it's even more visible if you put too much water, I guess you read that on the BMW test.
But explain me how we can degrade the combustion, produce less smoked and consume less diesel?
I would be curious to know what figure you have arrived with a panton on the consomation and exhaust exhaust temperatures? since you were equipped to measure!

Another subject when you talk about dilution of the oil I find very vague your answers, to the diesel there is as much dilution the badly sprayed drops those which stick to the surface end up to be collected in the oil of the casing depends on the use of the motor.
You did not tell us about engine glazing? or in your language the varnishing of the cylinders had a march 100% oil.
As for the turbo landing it happens on Garett precisely with your theory of changing the oil at 10000 km
this is true for an ideal use, but for normal use this practice makes engines that are aging very poorly
Personally I change the oil in 5000 km and even less in the winter season, the frequent start-a-20 and short trips quickly contaminates the oil, and as I am particular I open my oil filters (it sells a open box especially concut) and I examine the accordion. Many oil filters are clogged and the flapper opens that works like no filter. On engine oil I do not skimp, it's the life of the engine.
On the plane I change the oil at 25 hours oil is semi-synthetic aeroshell W15 / 50.
For bosh pumps and Lucas pumps it is particularly the drive shaft in the lucas that serves as (shear pin) when the oil lacks fluidity or injector tared too high the axis pin

Now I am going to please you. I do not advise to run the oil without having taken all the necessary precautions, it is one of the reasons that we opened several engines at the beginning, but it was necessary to learn and to seek the why? Once these problems are solved, it works well to use well filtered and well decanted oil, at the right temperature. We have known the problems of dilution and glazing and glued segment and all this, because of a misuse of the oil .. Most of these problems are settled ..
But that, you do not want to talk about how you should proceed to walk 100% oil, you prefer to say it's not good ...
I would never advise to walk 100% oil without making any modifications, booster pump booster thermostat a 80c return looped with debulling, start and purge on diesel, and better syteme of reheating on the sector I live in a cold country! To transfer to the oil only when the engine and the oil have reached 80c, to change the engine oil to less than 5000 km if small use runs, when one goes to the oil it is not necessary to hesitate to verifies and to tare the injector , it is not allowed to ride with injectors that spray poorly
anyway disassemble the injectors and pass on the pump is a trifle (when you have a well-designed engine, the tunt when you have the washers and spacers is not long .. this is it to walk in oil for a long time ...

That's all I have to say to you, I'll answer that for motor issues and topics that I know well, the gas analysis side on an engine I know nothing about it and I have nothing to measure in my small garage ..
Let's say that you teach us nothing when you say that there are not enough fields to produce oil it's as if you told us there are too many people on earth that rolls in cars ..
What surprises me why you chose this forum which is rather general whereas there are others specialized oily with guys of experiences in the matter ..
The German proverb that says: In the land of the blind, the one-eyed are king ..

Andre

[antoinet111]

just to point out a small thing, a rapeseed foot makes 1,5m high on 25 wide, imagine a can all the organic matter (several kg)the whole of the plant is crushed and leave in the field, except for a very small part about 30 to 40 g of seed, which has to make oil and still that 30% surroundings (70% cake), so a plant will absorb kg of CO2 to restore only a few grams of oil,

therefore the CO2 comsumption ratio of the plant and ejection into the nature (by the pot) and largely favorable to a decrease of the CO2 level in the atmosphere towards a degradation by the microorganisms of the soil.

"" On the other hand, the energy balance of new agricultural oil, produced in short circuit, was calculated by theADEME and it is 6 (oil releases 6 times more energy than its production required) ... which is much more than any other fuel! "oliomobile origin"
http://www.ademe.fr/partenaires/agrice/ ... ues_fr.pdf

you are not a biologist or a farmer, I am only a very small seed producer, who has made a minimum of study in this matter. so let the other fake equations know better than you do.

PS: abyssin3 + ¨1, the subject becomes boring, and has deviated.

[pluesy]

radasse 2000 I may be stupid but I understood nothing about your calculation of co2 in the atmosphere ...

for me if I have the chance to own a plot of one hectare and I plant rapeseed producing 1000L / year that I have a car that eat 5 l 100 20 000 km / years
if this land also has a slick of oil 100 m3 I will have the choice between pumping the oil or cultivating rapeseed to feed my car ... in both cases I will vaporize in the atmosphere 1000L shit / years
we agree it's similar ...
but at the end of 100 years if I pumped all the oil I will have a vacuum of 100 m3 in my basement and 100 m3 crap more in my atmosphere (it is the principle of the communicating vases ) if I planted rapeseed and that each year the rapeseed is reconstituted thanks to the sun and the shit that I rejected in the atmosphere I think that at the end of 100 years 1000 years to see 10 000 years I will have no more shit than at first in my atmosphere and I will be just limited to the life of the sun (5 billion years) for the exploitation of this energy while my reserve of oil that it is big or small I will finish one day or the other by coming to end and if it is more in the under soil it will be necessarily in the atmosphere (nothing is lost nothing is created) with a concentration of poluants which increases ineluctably over the Exhaustion of oil in the basement ... deny it for me is deny the evidence and all your fine calculations will not make me change my mind

it is of course obvious that the oil is not the pannaceae and that it can be only a marginal solution of transit for example with a hectare of terrrain one can do the following things with the choice:

- to feed a horse
- to feed a cow or an ox
- to feed five sheep
-fresh 20 humans (cereals)
-full 2 cars browsing 10 000km / years and consuming 5L oil / 100km
-For 6 cars browsing 10 000km / years and consuming 10L ethanol / 100kms

500 electric cars running 10 000km / years at 20kwh / 100km if we cover the field of photoelectric panels with a yield 10%

- 864 10 electric cars running 000 20km / years has 100kwh / 80km with a wind turbine 2 meters diameter of 10 megawatt XNUMX% of the time and continue to cultivate what we want below ...

it is true that the oil solution is not profitable for the mass production and will monopolize the majority of the grounds serving to feed us but it is not sastifaire of the marginal ones having ground fallow or a good source of used oil adepte of autarcie of old gimbiards and do-it-yourself is often said that small streams make big rivers and 10% of a solution by 7% of another by ect ... it can end up making 100% renewable well on the pioneers and the enlightened ones of the beginning often pay the broken pots and pass often for lunatics but as soon as it turns round and that most of the problems are solved the others do not pray to follow the movement of the moment that it is in the It's fashionable and it's not too complicated to put in place and it's really profitable from a purse point of view.

a solution yes the solution no ... I agree with you ...