The car Biogas

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
jonule
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2404
Registration: 15/03/05, 12:11




by jonule » 25/10/13, 09:01

+ 10 Raymon 8)
the political will is not there ...
question of culture, of reason and especially of lobby, so political: it is not our fault, but of those for which we vote.
I pity the farmers: but what are they waiting for to strike?
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 25/10/13, 12:13

the best solution would be to use locally all the small sources of energy ... and other sources of raw materials

alas the will of those who govern is completely opposed: the desire to centralize so that it benefits large corporations

it proves a little that the government does not govern, and leaves the power to certain society

the rules on methanisation require to make tons of file: conclusion there is only the big thing that is possible

the example of did67 is too small for the current policy: just justified by a technical high school

the methanization pioneers who made the good thing smaller, were ejected from the system

in Germany, the pioneers who started as a do-it-yourselfer ended up as a big-material builder like schnell! look for the difference

I spent part of my life inventing things hoping to make ... I realized that there is no hope in France by inventing technique ... now we have to invent a new type corporate, with an original financing mode to get out of the current system which is a deadly trap

the current administration's way of requiring huge and precise files for any project that is forbidden to build any novelty: you have to buy material already available for the files to be precise ... so since you can not have anything new in France all the material available is foreign ... so all the subsidies only benefit the foreign manufacturer

by the subsidies the government handicaps any manufacturer of new equipment in France
0 x
raymon
Grand Econologue
Grand Econologue
posts: 901
Registration: 03/12/07, 19:21
Location: vaucluse
x 9




by raymon » 25/10/13, 12:40

It remains to take a rail tar and feathers and take care of all this scum!
0 x
Yoghurt
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 4
Registration: 03/10/13, 12:30




by Yoghurt » 25/10/13, 15:34

chatelot16 wrote:you can always mix CO2 and hydrogen ... and stir for a long time it will never do methane

"Never" is a little too loud. At room temperature, the Sabatier reaction is thermodynamically spontaneous and exothermic.
But in practice, so that it does not put chandeliers, yes, we must cross a kinetic barrier and use a catalyst.
This italian article gives the enthalpies of transformations. In this study, the reaction on nickel powder is almost complete at 300 ° C under stoichiometric conditions.

Admittedly, it is industrial ecology (like the production of wind farms, industrial solar panels, etc.). In comparison with chemical plants style Jarrow, and style refineries Feyzinis still far from heavy chemistry.

Regarding the farmers who should strike, they were already on strike not long ago to have more subsidies for the production of milk and egg. Between that and the strikes to maintain their right to roll in oil / diesel tax free, I'm not sure they have the time and the desire to strike for the development of small methanization ...
For the record, France is the 1ère beneficiary of the subsidies of the common agricultural policy (especially the big fish of agriculture, since the small farmers are gradually closing shop, with the exception perhaps of the small market gardeners supported by the AMAP) .
0 x
STOP all diesel - For CNG in our cars! ==> sign the petition ;-)
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 25/10/13, 15:52

the farmers are the main victims of the badly done subsidies

this is the problem of subsidies, it pays the wrong solution and the subsidy becomes indispensable to live: therefore those who receive them are well obliged to be opposed to their suppression

when a bad grant has created a bad situation, removing the subsidy does not solve anything, but makes a problem more

when bad subsidies have done away with old activity, everything has been demolished or forgotten, we can not rebuild what is missing with a magic wand

when I hear the peasants protest against the eco tax on trucks, I agree with them for a completely opposite reason

if you want to reduce the use of trucks, you have to BUILD ways to do without, and not TAXER truck users who have no way to do otherwise
0 x
jonule
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2404
Registration: 15/03/05, 12:11




by jonule » 25/10/13, 17:37

Yoghourt wrote:Admittedly, it's industrial ecology

as much as converting biogas to diesel vehicle liquid (BTL) in an industrial way, the fisher-tropps process has been greatly improved since;

as for farmers, we must not talk about the same?
I am talking about those who have the soul farmer, not industrial big fish;

it's the same when we talk about motorists, there are the good and the bad, but don't forget that "there are goods"; =)
0 x
Yoghurt
I discovered econologic
I discovered econologic
posts: 4
Registration: 03/10/13, 12:30




by Yoghurt » 14/11/13, 12:20

jonule wrote:
Yoghourt wrote:Admittedly, it's industrial ecology

as much as converting biogas to diesel vehicle liquid (BTL) in an industrial way, the fisher-tropps process has been greatly improved since;

A priori, the further the synthesis is from the basic compounds, the more it must "cost". In practice, it would be necessary to be able to compare the "effective yields" and industrial / LCA costs.

as for farmers, we must not talk about the same?
I am talking about those who have the soul farmer, not industrial big fish;
Do you mean farmers / peasants? Those who have more generally something else to do than go out to protest? ;-)

Fiat will ride a biogas panda on 450 terminals for demo in Italy:
http://www.gnvmagazine.com/eng/noticia- ... _fair-3336

A +
Y.
PS Almost 600 signatures. Woah, great, let's continue!
0 x
STOP all diesel - For CNG in our cars! ==> sign the petition ;-)
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 14/11/13, 15:21

A priori, the further the synthesis is from the basic compounds, the more it must "cost". In practice, it would be necessary to be able to compare the "effective yields" and industrial / LCA costs.


exactly! the transformation of methane into liquid fuel makes losses mandatory: uses non reversible chemical reaction

the energy loss of these transformations is far worse than the energy to compress methane at 200bar

the GTL gas to liquid methods are justified to value the methane that comes out with the oil at places where we do not know what to do methane: in some cases it was burned in a flare: it is always better to transform it into liquid than to lose it

and then, it is often more economical to lose energy to turn it into liquid than to transport methane

to return to the local bogaz, compress it for use in a car requires a tank lord and bulky ... damage to weigh down the car: for an agricultural treater is much better: the current tractor is not heavy enough avaec their engine, we add counterpoise! some methane tank would just replace the counterpoise

so it would be quite logical to spend a certain amount of methane in a tractor ... it's good keeping the diesel as the main fuel there is no big change to make

A smaller scale of biogas would be interesting for lawn mower or tiller: it bypasses the handicap of the weight of the tank by a low autonomy: it does not matter if it is necessary to refill gas every quarter of an hour when one is at home
0 x
jonule
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 2404
Registration: 15/03/05, 12:11




by jonule » 14/11/13, 23:39

does it exist to compress very small bottles of gas?
should it take less energy?
I'm thinking of Briggs & Stratton biogas kits for chainsaws and mowers; =)
0 x
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264




by chatelot16 » 15/11/13, 01:45

I have never seen this kind of compressor in the trade ... but it could be made without problem, much more easily than a bigger compressor!

no need for a big piece: just a stack of small machined piece

if someone is really interested, I could make some ... ask in mp

no need for complicated automation ... just a presostat to stop at the right pressure

it will work easily with GDF methane ... I let you do the math to see the difference with gasoline

that would be the kind to fill a big bottle in one day, for which it is available to fill instantly a small many times

to compress biomethane is more complicated, it takes a gas plant to purify the gas, and all the precautions it takes to avoid compressing air

I have a little trick to ensure safety and never compress gas containing air: to pass the gas on a filament broken bulb: in clean methane the filament can heat without oxidizing: at the least oxygen present the filament grid instantly, well before the oxygen level is sufficient to be dangerous ... as long as it does not grill it is good to compress
0 x

 


  • Similar topics
    Replies
    views
    Last message

Back to "biofuels, biofuels, biofuels, BtL, non-fossil alternative fuels ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 124 guests