Hydrogen by electrolysis injected into a diesel engine

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Pierre-Yves
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Hydrogen by electrolysis injected into a diesel engine




by Pierre-Yves » 13/01/12, 11:45

The company Flexfuel sells an electrolyser injecting hydrogen into diesel engines. This system has been installed on two marine diesel engines, whose power must be around 400 to 500 kW and which run 24 hours a day for periods of ten days (the consumption must be between 24 and 50 l / h) .

The savings observed on two tests would be of the order of 5 to 7%, for a consumption of distilled water of 5 liters per week.

With 1860 liters of H2 per liter of water, 5 liters of water per 5-day week gives 93 MJ. For 5 days, the boat will have consumed 9000 liters of diesel, or 328500 MJ.

I am quite surprised by these figures ...

Furthermore, I would like to know what energy is required to electrolyze 5 liters of water (I don't think it is very large).

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by dedeleco » 13/01/12, 16:42

energy required to electrolyze 5 liters of water

is pretty basic:
Charge passing 96500 coulomb (Faraday) per mole of H from 1g to V minimum of 1,2V, rather 1,5V given the not perfect yield with 2g of H2 produced for 18g of H2O used (2 faraday per 18g of water) allows to calculate
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constante_de_Faraday
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday%27 ... ectrolysis
I can't do anything translated into French !!!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lectrolyse

So 96500x1,5x5000 / 18x2 = 80416667 Joules = 80 MJ
not zero, but very weak.
Check that the engine gave the same total energy with this H2, because a little less power and fuel used at a little less speed, is enough to make believe savings ????

Maybe this H2 helps vaporize the fuel better for better combustion ???????
See with a little air bubbles or other combustible gas like butane if this effect does not persist ????
Mystery to be studied scientifically with great care.
Can be very variable depending on the engine settings ?????
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Re: hydrogen by electrolysis injected into a diesel engine




by gildas » 13/01/12, 16:58

Pierre-Yves wrote:
The savings observed on two tests would be of the order of 5 to 7%, for a consumption of distilled water of 5 liters per week.

With 1860 liters of H2 per liter of water, 5 liters of water per 5-day week gives 93 MJ. For 5 days, the boat will have consumed 9000 liters of diesel, or 328500 MJ.

I am quite surprised by these figures ...



H2 does not even represent 1/1000 of the energy of GO.

There is however a saving of 5 to 7%. It seems that the hydrogen thanks to its rapidity of combustion will therefore help the GO to burn better which will explain the economy.
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by Pierre-Yves » 13/01/12, 17:11

dedeleco wrote:So 96500x1,5x5000 / 18 = 40208333 Joules = 40 MJ
not zero, but very weak.


Thank you dedeleco. This energy is indeed low, compared to the 93 MJ that the combustion of hydrogen gives !!

dedeleco wrote:Check that the engine gave the same total energy with this H2, because a little less power and fuel used at a little less speed, is enough to make believe savings ????


The placebo effect is often inevitable ... It's human! When you have just installed an energy saving device, you pay more attention to its behavior. There were two trawlers in Boulogne equipped with the Vulcano system (if I remember correctly). They also announced up to 7% savings at the start on one of the boats, zero on the other. After a while, it was stopped because it was not conclusive at all.

To say that we have savings on a single trip at sea is not at all realistic: same sea conditions? same speed? same weight of fish? Consumption increases exponentially with speed when you go all the way: you just have to reduce your speed a bit to save money. We will have to wait to see if the savings observed persist !!

Has anyone heard of this process?
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by dedeleco » 13/01/12, 17:21

So 96500x1,5x5000 / 18 = 40208333 Joules = 40 MJ
not zero, but very weak.

It is 80 Mj by 40, factor 2 of H2O forgotten and corrected !!
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Re: hydrogen by electrolysis injected into a diesel engine




by Pierre-Yves » 13/01/12, 17:31

Gildas wrote:H2 does not even represent 1/1000 of the energy of GO.

It's even smaller than 1/1000. We are in the field of homeopathy! (I treat myself by homeopathy, so this is not a criticism)

Gildas wrote:It seems that hydrogen thanks to its rapid combustion will therefore help the GO to burn better which will explain the economy.

Sorry, but that is not an explanation! You have to give the sources, if they exist ...
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Re: hydrogen by electrolysis injected into a diesel engine




by Christophe » 13/01/12, 19:26

Pierre-Yves wrote:Sorry, but that is not an explanation! You have to give the sources, if they exist ...


We have already talked about it dozens of times ... this joins the effect of water injection resulting in better combustion ...

And here is what you need to know about water injection: https://www.econologie.com/forums/article-ec ... t9612.html

Otherwise search engine: https://www.econologie.com/forums/search.php

In my PFE (2001) I have the H2 inflammation curves ...

It is obvious that even a small% of H2 promotes combustion.

But 5L of water per week on 500kW motors, do not exaggerate all the same, it is extremely low as% H2 compared to the consumption in kg of air ...

1L of water "producing" only 111g of H2 ...
We are of the order of 1 per 15 with respect to fuel ... or 000% ... or with respect to air still about 0.0067 times less ... or 15% ...

We are good in mechanical homeopathy and there I do not believe too much! : Cheesy:
Last edited by Christophe the 06 / 09 / 13, 11: 56, 1 edited once.
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by Former Oceano » 13/01/12, 20:48

Christophe you forget the memory of the air.
It is like the memory of water but for air. If it has touched a di-hydrogen molecule, it will behave like di-hydrogen and the percentage becomes exponentially strong until combustion : Mrgreen: Image Image
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by Flytox » 13/01/12, 23:51

former oceanic wrote:Christophe you forget the memory of the air.
It is like the memory of water but for air. If it has touched a di-hydrogen molecule, it will behave like di-hydrogen and the percentage becomes exponentially strong until combustion : Mrgreen: Image Image


: Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

For the economy of GO, it is first necessary to make X measurements over a long distance then to make the average before modifying to know your vehicle and the repeatability of the pilot at the start ..... After modifying.

Often when we look at the dispersions on paths and conditions supposed to be identical (already on the original machine) we are afraid ... : Mrgreen: What conclusion will I be able to draw ?????? : Cry:

7% chai not for a boat, but for a car it is not at all significant!
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by dedeleco » 14/01/12, 02:03

With homeopathy, which doctors use with happy patients, like Janic, at the dilution 12CH 100 ^ 12, there are no more molecules left and therefore as for the eco-CAR, even more homeopathic, just put it in the return of fuel so that the fuel molecules are influenced and fuel better with more conviction !!!
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