Diesel engine running on gas

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caracole
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Diesel engine running on gas




by caracole » 18/07/08, 21:36

Hello,

At the risk of appearing ridiculous, I dare this question:

Is it possible to run a diesel engine on gas? for example butane / propane, if yes, how?
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Pierre-Yves
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by Pierre-Yves » 18/07/08, 21:57

it is quite possible and it is called "dual fuel" in English. The diesel is mainly used for starting, then we switch to gas. The advantage is that there is less pollution than with diesel.

Now, this requires having two tanks (more space, more weight), to properly manage the storage and distribution of gas (but this already exists with LPG and it works very well).

We win over pollution and the price (temporarily, because gas is indexed to the price of oil and is climbing). We lose yield, because diesel is at the top in terms of MJ / l.
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by the middle » 18/07/08, 22:23

We talk about it here :D
http://www.ch-forschung.ch/index.php?artid=26
Here too (we are talking about injector seizure problems)
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=149771
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by Flytox » 18/07/08, 22:38

Bonjour à tous

Document title / Document title
Thermodynamic modeling of LPG combustion in dual-fuel engines = Thermodynamic modeling of LPG combustion in dual-fuel engines
Author (s) / Author (s)
BILCAN A. (1); LE CORRE O. (1); TAZEROUT M. (1); RAMESH A. (2);
Affiliation (s) of the author (s) / Author (s) Affiliation (s)
(1) Nantes School of Mines, FRANCE
(2) Indian Institute of Technology Madras, INDIA

Abstract
Dual-fuel engines are modified diesel engines powered by two fuels burning simultaneously in the combustion chamber: a gaseous fuel, difficult to ignite by positive ignition and a liquid fuel with good auto-ignition qualities, called pilot fuel . The engine performance is comparable to that of diesel engines, however the level of polluting emissions is lower.

A new procedure has been developed for modeling combustion in a dual-fuel engine (LPG + diesel) on the basis of experimental results carried out in collaboration with the Indian Institute of Technology Madras. It is a single-cylinder, air-cooled engine operating at part load for different richnesses of the air-LPG mixture drawn in, with a variable quantity of pilot fuel. The procedure firstly concerns the ignition delay and then the combustion law. The heat generation is fully modeled and the error remains less than 10%.


http://www.ch-forschung.ch/index.php?artid=26

An interesting use of biogas.
A+

finally .... lejustemilieu I got overtaken .... : Mrgreen:
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by the middle » 18/07/08, 22:49

Meu no, but I found this idea interesting. :D
It also seemed to me that in the USA, there were a lot of gas trucks ... but I didn't find too many articles on it.
Good night....
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by jonule » 19/07/08, 14:01

that's good !

if not just from a practical / technical point of view, a gas cylinder with a pipe (I think I heard that without a regulator is better) which plunges directly into the air duct of the vehicle:
experience with the vehicle idling, the gas injected "into the vehicle's air outlet increases the speed ;-)
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by caracole » 19/07/08, 15:45

the objective is to run my generator set whose engine runs on diesel and is water cooled (1500tm)
starting with diesel does not bother me to the extent that all these manipulations can be automated.
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by caracole » 19/07/08, 15:46

jonule wrote:that's good !

if not just from a practical / technical point of view, a gas cylinder with a pipe (I think I heard that without a regulator is better) which plunges directly into the air duct of the vehicle:
experience with the vehicle idling, the gas injected "into the vehicle's air outlet increases the speed ;-)


More details please : Shock:
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by abyssin3 » 19/07/08, 19:29

jonule wrote:if not just from a practical / technical point of view, a gas cylinder with a pipe (I think I heard that without a regulator is better) which plunges directly into the air duct of the vehicle:
experience with the vehicle idling, the gas injected "into the vehicle's air outlet increases the speed ;-)

I had already thought about it. But if for some reason X or Y, you have a flashback to the bottle ...
Only an assembly in the rules of the art allows to be in safety. And an assembly in the rules of the art must be around 2000/3000 € (I had asked TopGas, they do it and had told me that it was slightly more expensive than on a gasoline - already out taken), BUT with the state premium, patati patata ...

For more details, I had already initiated a post HERE. Note that the 100% LPG solution is not possible with diesels (without engine modification). 25% of diesel fuel is required for self-ignition. And it is also done with natural gas (CNG).
I also posted on the forum FievezGPL. But they are rather tight with diesel, therefore difficult to initiate a wire above.
Last edited by abyssin3 the 19 / 07 / 08, 19: 43, 1 edited once.
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by abyssin3 » 19/07/08, 19:40

PS: If you want to find LPG specialists who transform diesels, good luck.
The first thing they tell you is: "no, on the diesels, it's not possible".
When you kindly explained to them that if (and si you managed to convince them), the second answer is a kind of bellowing like: Hmmmon hummmum hmooooh, no but we don't do that.
Clear, they do not care. In France, LPG is a selling point for green people who prefer petrol, so there is no question of doing it on diesel. And as it is already very profitable as a business (up to € 4000 per installation), they do not need to expand. With some exceptions.
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