Biofuel with Botryococcus Braunii

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
toutotomatik
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by toutotomatik » 02/01/09, 05:41

are you sure you can "easily" get a usable oil from this strain?

"Easily" = extraction with affordable means for an individual, that is to say no lab stuff ...

As your friend is working on it, I think you can have methods about it.


No, today I have only vague ideas about it. I imagine that some have already thought about it. Is the crank centrifuge thing hopeless? :|
the guy who works on it is not reachable and I don't see him often.

b) I strongly advise against direct bubbling with exhaust gases, especially gasoline: it would pollute your environment (benzene and others ...) and kill algae. With diesel it would be a little less worse but soot would be a problem. In addition, you will be at best at 15% CO2 ... so far from "pure" CO2.


For CO2, I think recovering a small part of the gases at the end of the exhaust (less pollutant) and cooling by a long copper tube for example.
So for soot and particles, I thought it would condense in the cooler tube. But it might be necessary to add a bubbler which retains all of this before cultivation.

c) we could reflect together on a method of extracting and purifying CO2 from exhaust gases. For example by capturing it in water (dissolved) and releasing it later under a bell. This would no doubt allow you to remove most of the pollutants and concentrate the CO2.


Do you have a precise idea of ​​how to capture CO2?

Problem: you will have to burn fuel to make fuel ...

Why do you say that?



electronics:
1st, 2nd and 3rd generation biofuels constitute a total deadlock in environmental, health and economic terms.

The fact that this technique has a poor performance does not prove that it is a dead end.
And then you don't talk about how solar panels are made.
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Elec
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by Elec » 02/01/09, 06:28

toutotomatik wrote:
electronics:
1st, 2nd and 3rd generation biofuels constitute a total deadlock in environmental, health and economic terms.

The fact that this technique has a poor performance does not prove that it is a dead end.
And then you don't talk about how solar panels are made.


If yes, I take into account the energy investment linked to the construction of the panels:
http://www.electron-economy.org/article-23222635.html

And when one sector has a surface yield 100 to 1000 times lower than another, for me it is a dead end.

And when, in addition, this sector consumes massively water and leads to polluting the environment (fertilizers, pesticides etc.), for me it is a total dead end.

Agrofuels (idem for hydrogen) are only of interest for a few niche applications where we cannot do otherwise: submarines, airplanes etc.

For cars, I think it is completely absurd to use agrofuels since we have here and now much more ecological and economical technologies.

Even with microalgae, the overall balance of the "thermal car" sector is poor compared to that of electric cars with batteries powered by wind or solar electricity (CSP or PV).
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 02/01/09, 12:35

Elec wrote:And when one sector has a surface yield 100 to 1000 times lower than another, for me it is a dead end.


It is to limit the choice of a solution to its "surface yield" which is a dead end yes !!

On the sole parameter of the surface, well, the solar drags miserably compared to thermal or nuclear power stations ... then should we not make solar?

In addition it is not in output in W / m² which we must talk about but in productivity in kWh / year.m² ! That attenuated things well at the level of the solar ... moreover: you cannot store, easily, solar ... at rather if: you can easily store solar ... In the biomass! (oil is elsewhere).

Image

https://www.econologie.com/carte-de-fran ... -3137.html

I think you clearly have a bias for the electric car I do not know pkoi (you live maybe?) ...

Elec wrote:For cars, I think it is completely absurd to use agrofuels since we have here and now much more ecological and economical technologies.


I prefer to talk about Biofuel about 2nd and 3rd generation biofuels if you don't mind.

I would say that it is completely absurd to want, under the guise of ecology, to renew the world fleet of vehicles.

How much does it cost, econologically, and how long will it take to renew the 800 million existing vehicles? Same question for the "clean" electricity source equipment? Anyway I bet there is not enough Nickel on earth to make as many batteries ...

The advantage of biofuels is that they are quite easily "retroactive" on an existing fleet. (rather minor modification compared to the recasting of a vehicle). Nowhere do your different paintings talk about it ...

Now: please stop for this little "Off Topic", we continue on the braunii algae! Thank you.
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Elec
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by Elec » 02/01/09, 17:26

Christophe wrote:
It is to limit the choice of a solution to its "surface yield" which is a dead end yes !!


Only multi-criteria studies allow serious comparisons to be made. The conclusion of the Stanford multi-criteria study (study cited in my last message) is that the case of agrofuels is getting worse in the context of such multi-criteria studies:
water, climate, chemical pollution, health impact, surfaces (and correspondingly impact on biodiversity, fauna, flora etc.) etc.
I invite you to read this study, it is fundamental.

With an approach that takes all these parameters into account, the conclusion is that generation 1, 2 and 3 agrofuels are not only a dead end but a serious threat.

I bet there is not enough Nickel on earth to make as many batteries ...

To my knowledge, no need for nickel to produce LiFePO4 batteries.

The advantage of biofuels is that they are quite easily "retroactive" on an existing fleet. (rather minor modification compared to the recasting of a vehicle). Nowhere do your different paintings talk about it ...


Indeed, with biofuels, we remain in the logic of oil (hence the support of oil tankers for that matter), and with engines with poor yields.

The bio-agro-fuels sector (whatever the sub-sector and generation) is by far the least economical and the least ecological.

you can't easily store solar

The BetterPlace concept completely solves the autonomy problem for cars.

How much does it cost, econologically, and how long will it take to renew the 800 million existing vehicles?

- Scenario 1:
electric conversation of current vehicles via motor-wheel:
http://www.electron-economy.org/article-25492294-6.html

- Scenario 2:
fleet renewal, excellent for employment.

please stop for this little "Off Topic", we continue on the braunii algae! Thank you.


OK, I'm just responding to your message. Now let's talk about microalgae.
Last edited by Elec the 03 / 01 / 09, 01: 55, 4 edited once.
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Elec
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by Elec » 02/01/09, 18:05

About microalgae:

Among all photosynthetic organisms, it is certain species of microalgae (generic term for very diverse organisms in reality) which have the best surface yields, a parameter which is obviously essential from an economic and ecological point of view.

However, microalgae pose very important problems.
For example,
- the cultures of the species richest in lipids are those which are most easily infected by viruses or bacteria. And a culture infection = stopping production.
- controlling the physico-chemical parameters (pH, O2, luminous flux etc.) throughout weeks is a real and costly challenge
- the cost of providing fertilizers not contaminated with bacteria or viruses (phosphate, nitrates) is considerable. Crops must be supplied with minerals at all times.
- To obtain a few grams of oil, you must manage very large volumes of water ...

And, fundamental point, even with the best technologies of genetic engineering, the surface yield will always be much lower than the BEV sector. With microalgae, however the champions in the matter within the plant world, we are at 3 W / m2, which is low.

It follows that from a financial point of view, fuels based on microalgae oil will never be competitive with the wind electricity / electric car-battery sector or with the thermosolar electricity / electric car-battery sector.
For physical reasons that are impossible to circumvent ...

The difference in terms of cost per kilometer is considerable: 6 US cents per mile with EV + electricity from renewable sources (cost established on solid bases, battery included), between 50 and 200 US cents (see more for certain authors) with Algofuels (cost estimated by specialists).

The oil companies are desperately looking for means to maintain their monopoly while giving themselves a green color.
This leads to the worst economic and ecological aberrations.

The microalgae sector has only a future for niche applications (airplanes etc.), where we unfortunately cannot go to the most ecological and economical sector, that is to say the electric.

The wind-powered electric car is the econological champion (multi-criteria classification). It is followed by the thermosolar electric car.

The thermal cars with bio-agro-fuels or algo-fuels leave the Stanford classification so much their score is poor.
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toutotomatik
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by toutotomatik » 02/01/09, 23:16

However, microalgae pose very important problems.
For example,
- the cultures of the species richest in lipids are those which are most easily infected by viruses or bacteria. And a culture infection = stopping production.
- controlling the physico-chemical parameters (pH, O2, luminous flux etc.) throughout weeks is a real and costly challenge
- the cost of providing fertilizers not contaminated with bacteria or viruses (phosphate, nitrates) is considerable. Crops must be supplied with minerals at all times.
- To obtain a few grams of oil, you must manage very large volumes of water ...

It is starting to be interesting for the subject, but we are not talking about the same thing yet. Personally my problem is very concrete, I explain it at the beginning. I want to move free and everyone can do it. If ecological solutions cost me dear, I will have to go to work, maybe at the factory. And that is neither pleasant nor ecological. The stuff you offer will cost me dear to do. About the global change at once, Christophe already answered you.

If your idea is just to monopolize the discussion to make you froth, drop it you're toast.
which led me to publish some articles on the subject. See here and there

If it's to try to sell your paper, sorry too.

So to relaunch on something concrete:
how could we have cultures on board cars that use CO2 from exhaust gases, or why could we not?
Christophe said that we would only get 15% of CO2, but it does not matter I think, the plants feed well on air at 0.035% of C02!

Or as proposed above, it would be necessary to be able to "extract" the CO2 from the exhaust.

Do you know how they do with "liquid air" to concentrate CO2? In fact by asking the question I imagine that it must be a story of liquefaction and distillation. Not feasible on a human scale I think.
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Elec
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by Elec » 02/01/09, 23:41

toutotomatik wrote:I want to move free and everyone can do it.

Well it's really not with the alga-fuels that you can do it! I can assure you.
It is even the most expensive route.

how could we have cultures on board cars that use CO2 from exhaust gases, or why could we not?

It is much more practical to burn your fuel in a fixed micro-power plant and recover the CO2 to boost the growth of microalgae (fixed culture). But there are far more relevant ways to generate electricity to power an electric car.

Christophe said that we would only get 15% of CO2, but it does not matter I think, the plants feed well on air at 0.035% of C02!

The idea of ​​capturing C02 and growing microalgae on the roof of your car (to get the maximum amount of light) does not hold water at all. To obtain a few grams of oil and sequester the C02 in the algal biomass, several cubic meters of water are required. You are not going to walk around with 10 to 100 cubic meters of water on the roof of your car.

Do you know how they do with "liquid air" to concentrate CO2? In fact by asking the question I imagine that it must be a story of liquefaction and distillation. Not feasible on a human scale I think.


Compression of any gas consumes a lot of energy. For example, with liquid air, compression of dihydrogen requires 10% of the energy content of the volume of gas considered.

But if you need a compressor, in addition to a giant aquarium (with control system for temperature, pH, light flux, supply of phosphates, nitrates, antibiotics etc.) on the roof of your car, you're not going to get out ...
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Elec
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by Elec » 03/01/09, 19:35

About the global change at once, Christophe already answered you.


Equipping current vehicles with wheel motors, what do you think?

Image

Michelin file:
With Michelin's wheel motor, "the gearbox, clutch, transmission shaft, differential, shock absorbers disappear (...)"
http://www.michelin.com/corporate/actua ... onauto2008

Orange VIDEO:
http://www.orange-innovation.tv/webtv/m ... fr/play/1/

Active Wheel tests:
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=i1uTR-8KarE

Battery + Stirling engine for extended range (fuel at microalgal biomass for example) + wheel motor = interesting equation.

About the first hybrid model with Stirling engine:
http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/11/11/the ... ka-revolt/

Image
Photo: the Stirling engine (40% rdt), works with any fuel, including microalgal biomass.

Note that the Stirling engine block can be used for the car on long journeys (for those who are longer than the autonomy of the vehicle battery), but it can also serve as an electric generator for the house (+ heat production, cogeneration). It works with pellets or wood pellets, biogas, microalgal biomass etc.
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toutotomatik
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by toutotomatik » 26/01/09, 00:51

Hello to those who follow this topic!
Here I am still waiting for the algae to multiply so that I can do other experiments.

I just observed that they seem to develop better since:
-That they are at the foot of a window facing south.
-That I added a little urine to feed them.
-That my mother shakes them every day. : - /


About urine, I have no idea how much to add, it's experimental for now. This time I put 2.5mL of urine for 1/2 liter of culture. Later I will try to add more quickly!

I made the secchi disc which will allow us to measure the evolution of the concentration.
c) we could reflect together on a method of extracting and purifying CO2 from exhaust gases. For example by capturing it in water (dissolved) and releasing it later under a bell. This would no doubt allow you to remove most of the pollutants and concentrate the CO2. Problem: you will have to burn fuel to make fuel ...

Christophe, can you say more about capturing CO2 in water. How do we do that? With lime, like in college?
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dekerle
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by dekerle » 18/03/09, 20:31

It is interesting everything you discuss.
for the water + algae system on the roof of the car I don't really believe in it ... for what is a compressor driven by the engine or the shaft of the wheels which compresses the air from the exhausts , it would be possible, right?
the gases would be compressed at the speed at which they left combustion to be stored in a canister, which is then emptied so that the gases can only escape through the oxygen plant (algae).

Basically the bottle would be emptied at the same time as we fill up. and each station would have its gas cleaning station!

the American system that they have put in place at the outlet of the factories is to be analyzed! ...

I really think that we have to think about maximum profitability of gas treatment, as we treat water in sewage treatment plants or treatment of non-recyclable waste.
water treatment is not profitable but is essential for the environment. Then it is the law that can provide who pays for air treatment, polluters, or all consumers ...

And then comes the question ... what do we do with these algae ??

algae development at the factory, waste incinerators, cars, etc.

For that you have to get started on a reduced model, and test, retest ... I don't know where you live, but if we could join our efforts ...

why not buy the algae machine from the american company which created it to analyze it ... (i say that ...) ... looking for people who would be interested in the eproject to obtain funds ...
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