Clean fuel for aviation

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
Christine
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by Christine » 19/12/07, 08:21

If you don't understand, your teachers haven't done their job well, ask them for some explanations : Cheesy:
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Re: But all that you say it confuses me




by Flytox » 19/12/07, 09:17

Hello Gaya
gaya wrote:can you help me because i read your messages and i don't know how to synthesize them well because the complexity of your explanation drives me crazy !!! I remember that there are no alternative fuels for aircraft but that the turbocharger is a way to reduce the main nuance is correct ??


Changing fuel is already complex and requires a lot of knowledge and development. On an aircraft, the constraints are even greater, no question of breaking down and the altitude and the cold create new problems not to mention the regulations and supply. It is certainly an obstacle course but not impossible. 8)

Compared to the reduction of "nuisances" and the use of a turbocharger, this makes it possible to gain a little sound level. For other pollutants, this does not bring much significant. It's rather worse, before the compressor picks up speed, and comparable when the engine is in its normal operating range. The interest in aviation is a better weight / power ratio and less loss of power at altitude if the pressure ratio is controllable. : Mrgreen:
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by Christophe » 19/12/07, 09:20

Well, speaking of a turbocharger, I think we talked earlier about the Belgian invention which would reduce consumption by 30% and noise by 50%.

Well I saw a little report and contrary to what I thought I understood above, it is not a modification that we would make to existing engines but indeed a brand new engine. Something which is already more credible with respect to the gain of 30% which seemed enormous to me for a modification of an existing engine.

Planned commercialization: 2020!
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by Gregconstruct » 19/12/07, 09:27

Yes, I was the one who talked about it.

I didn't have all the info because I heard that in the morning in the car!

2020, we still have time to see it coming !!! :frown:
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Re: But all that you say it confuses me




by Chatham » 19/12/07, 11:59

gaya wrote:I remember that there are no alternative fuels for aircraft but that the turbocharger is a way to reduce the main nuance is correct ??


Turbo-compressor on a piston engine of course, because the turboprop it is something else: it is in fact a reactor of which most of the thrust is transformed into rotary movement by a turbine located after the combustion chamber (s), rotary movement transmitted, via a speed reducer, to a propeller simple or counter-rotating, which is more efficient than simply using the reaction thrust: for the best performance (and also less noise!) it is much better to accelerate a large volume of air a little than to accelerate ( and heat) a lot ...
Also note that a turboprop can theoretically operate on any liquid fuel, just adjust the amount of fuel injected according to its nature (ideal air / fuel ratio for the most complete combustion possible) ...
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Re: But all that you say it confuses me




by Flytox » 19/12/07, 20:20

Hello Chatham
Chatham wrote:Also note that a turboprop can theoretically operate on any liquid fuel, just adjust the amount of fuel injected according to its nature (ideal air / fuel ratio for the most complete combustion possible) ...


Exactly, there is a company using a Lama helicopter with an Artouste engine that operates chai plus or in South America and uses the used oil from its fleet of trucks as fuel. It "suffices" to delay the "fuel" flow rate so as not to exceed the engine temperature limits (generator turbine inlet temperature). It's better than the gutter ... because there they don't mind too much to throw it anywhere : Mrgreen:

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by balrotz » 22/01/08, 17:44

Good evening :) I take this opportunity to relaunch this subject, I read all your posts (which took me a long time ^^), and I come to several questions: a clean fuel like algae can they completely replace oil ? which "bio fuels" are likely to replace oil?

(we do a TPE on: what future on aviation?, with the future disappearance of oil)

please :)
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by Chatham » 22/01/08, 18:15

balrotz wrote:, and I come to several questions: can a clean fuel like algae completely replace petroleum? which "bio fuels" are likely to replace oil?

(we do a TPE on: what future on aviation?, with the future disappearance of oil)

please :)


A "clean" fuel which completely replaces petroleum that would surprise me given the enormous quantities involved ...
aviation? as in the 50s: reserved for the wealthy ...
For the others, crossing the Atlantic with a large sailboat it takes ~ 3 weeks (if there is wind) ... so it will take a good reason or a lot of time to travel ... : Cheesy:
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by Other » 22/01/08, 19:32

Hello

What are we talking about in aviation?
the small light aircraft is a drop in the total consumption ..
At the speed where things and regulations evolve, no desire to run the engines economically or with universal fuel, auto or diesel, even the large industrialized countries produce no engine or very little, Rotaxe, SMR, they left the field open to the American engine manufacturer, who will continue to work for a long time at 100LL.

Now if we talk about transport aviation it is suddenly 100 tonnes of fuel by plane that must be composed, a quick calculation of the number of traffic in major international airports the equation is quickly filled, never with bio fuel we will manage to make all these birds walk ..
a single transatlantic flight operates all the buses in a city for a good shake.
why a boat trip costs more, making passengers live for 4 days on a boat costs more than transporting them 6 hours on a plane .. the question is not ecological but economical like the size of the plane a large aircraft has the same crew as a small one (apart from the services)
we know that the weight of the passengers is relative versus the fuel transported and the appetizers mouths and kitchen accessory of comfort (the same planes is filled almost double when it is military)
the other question why we have to travel to the other side of the world
in exotic countries to lock yourself in hotels with the same things that are found near home either?
When I see a North American tourist who goes to Europe and who says to me there is not even Mac Donal, to go to visit another country and not to appreciate the local kitchen, nor the decoration that does not deserve to travel, that he continues to eat Macdop ..

Andre
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by balrotz » 24/01/08, 19:12

good evening i re :), I had found a good site dealing with our subject:

http://generationsfutures.chez-alice.fr/petrole/dernieres_annees_aviation_civile.htm

but it starts to date a little ..., I would like to know if you have addresses to offer me, or even contacts in large aeronautical companies (I had sent a message to a boss of ches airbus, asking him politely their plans when there was no more oil, never answers ...:D : Cheesy: : Cheesy: (I believed in Santa Claus the ^^ xD)

and, yes, we will also speak, as "openness", that tourism to distant destinations will hardly exist any more, the vacations will be longer (the time of a boat trip, etc.), and rarer ..

voila, if you have other advice, do not hesitate :)
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