Clean fuel for aviation

[Chatham]

Toutafé would not diesel be a "clean" fuel for an airplane? In comparison with the fuel pit that are the lycoming engines (technology year 40) still in "service" because of the systematic lobbying on the standards that only large companies know how to do ...

So there are at least 2 diesel airplane prototypes (by the same author):
a) dieselis: http://membres.lycos.fr/dieselis/
b) the gazail: http://gazaile2.free.fr/phpBB2/index.php

Look at the performance in consumption at 100km ... it's better than most current cars ... and at almost 200 km / h !!

André, do you know Serge PENNEC personally it seems to me?
By the way do you know pkoi the name dieselis changed to gazaile?

The use of different fuels is very limited in aviation on the one hand because of the low t ° in altitude (freezing), on the other hand because of the drop of the atmospheric pressure (vapor lock).
So alcohol (which absorbs water very well: very dangerous on an airplane !!!) will be limited to hot countries and low altitudes, diesel and oils unusable in our countries except in summer and not very high (most oils freeze very quickly, even diesel additives do not withstand below -20 ° C (go count diesel vehicles in Canada, Alaska or Russia ...).
The dieselis license does not belong to Pennec, but to the Dutch box which bought the rights, the gazail has nothing to do with the ex. dieselis (the gazaile is a kind of wooden copy of the MCR ...). The engine used is a Citroën 1.4L diesel athmo from AX or at most a 1.5 which is more reliable, but heavier: this engine (or rather its injection pump) can run on keros with a small addition of 2-stroke oil. We cannot compare the consumption of an ultra light aircraft with that of a car: ridiculous payload, sensitivity to the weather (100km / h of headwind and even at 200km / h you actually only advance at 100km, certainly if you have the same wind in your ass it's all good ...)

[Other]

Hello

The dieselis license does not belong to Pennec, but to the Dutch box which bought the rights, the gazail has nothing to do with the ex. dieselis (the gazaile is a kind of wooden copy of the MCR ...). The engine used is a Citroën 1.4L diesel athmo from AX or at most a 1.5 which is more reliable, but heavier: this engine (or rather its injection pump) can run on keros with a small addition of 2-stroke oil. We cannot compare the consumption of an ultra light aircraft with that of a car: ridiculous payload, sensitivity to the weather (100km / h of headwind and even at 200km / h you actually only advance at 100km, certainly if you have the same wind in your ass it's all good ...)

We should not put too much layer in the diesel aircraft field,
If we look at the history, it was made of big diesel engines airplane (Clerget) if the reactors had not arrived at this time it would have taken off.
Diesel and an engine with great torque and which has a good performance at low speed therefore everything intended to have it light if the technology manages to take weight from its construction. (Easy to adapt a fixed pitch propeller)
The main problem with self-propelled engines is the electronic technology which makes them a little less reliable.
it is for this reason that we rarely see electronic injection engines on aircraft (it still works with magnetos and a double ignition) let's say that I will embark on an aviation discussion on this post.
Just to say that Serge Peneck is doing a remarkable job in adapting diesel engines in small planes, despite the resitances and the criticism of the world of French pilots against diesel, despite the administrative pitfalls.
In a decade the tourism asset will be greatly reduced with the cost of fuel and the closure of the airports, as well as the control zones. ULMs are going to take on a fairly significant growth, and their performance already exceeds many conventional aircraft like the Cessna 150 ..
It is normal that it took as a base a plane already performent which it modified to put an auto engine (which in reality are not designed for aviation) certain Jodel also have diesel engines
When the consumption advertised with a diesel, you can walk in under regime without great problem, or an economy out of the ordinary, try with a Lycoming or a Continental to operate under load at low rpm 1900 rpm you will quickly a problem with broken segments.


For speed measurements we always take the wind into account, we do a triangulation measure the announced speed on the GPS always corresponds to the real air speed and not ground

For Jet A or B fuel it is an accommodation because on airports there is no diesel (these engines work better with diesel for the lubrication of the pump)

For the engine load it is even more loaded than on a car, when mounted at full power, leveling off 75% of the power
On a car it is rare that we dye it at 100% power for 15 minutes
The proof the original radiator of the car does not provide on an airplane you need a 3-pass radiator, despite the air speed

For the weight carried it is still the stupid regulation, which forces the manufacturers of ULM to use very expensive resistant materials and to cut weight in the structures of the planes.
and which in a way penalizes the current diesel in these assemblies.
Andre

[Gregconstruct]

I don't have clean aircraft fuel in stock, but I heard this morning that Techspace Aero (it's Belgian, it's Walloon, it's Liège !!!) has just released a compressor for aircraft reactors, which reduce noise and polluting gas emissions by half.
This compressor also reduces fuel consumption by 30%.

[Flytox]

Hello Gregconstruct

I don't have clean aircraft fuel in stock, but I heard this morning that Techspace Aero (it's Belgian, it's Walloon, it's Liège !!!) has just released a compressor for aircraft reactors, which reduce noise and polluting gas emissions by half.
This compressor also reduces fuel consumption by 30%.

You won't have any more info on it, I found nothing on the net.
A+

[Gregconstruct]

Hi Flytox

You won't have any more info on it, I found nothing on the net.
A+

I don't have any more info, I just heard it this morning on the radio. I just know that the lab tests are over and that the stuff is going to Russia for the flight tests!

If I have something new, I will stick to the juice!

[Other]

Hello

a compressor for aircraft reactors has just been released, which has cut noise and polluting gas emissions by half.
This compressor also reduces fuel consumption by 30%.

The principle of the turbo fan consists in making an air tube which surrounds the hot gases of the jet and traps the noise
also the contribution of this mass of air which heats up contributes to increase the output of the single turbine jet.
This is similar to the prop turbos.
Currently there is a lot of research on combustion in the turbine chambers by dilution through tiny laser-drilled holes to eliminate the smoke and increase the efficiency.

Andre

[Christophe]

30% reduction in consumption seems pretty huge ...

[jonule]

diesel and oils unusable in our countries except in summer and not very high (most oils freeze very quickly, even diesel additives hardly support below -20 ° C (go count diesel vehicles in Canada, Alaska or in Russia ...).

you do not understand chatam, already there are additives for the oil, then some engines can work well with an oil not very fluid, I want for proof my 1.9TD bosch pump for 4 years, but especially as I say above there is the dual-fuel system, a universal system for all fuels, whether ethanol oil or gas:
the oil is used only for starting, like that everything is as usual.
once the engine is warm, everything is hot including the tank which has been reheated during this time, and there the engine switches to 100% additive oil!
in the end the engine is rinsed with petroleum for a next restart without problem.
I know some who run in molasses or palm oil, saying "unusable in our regions" as you say, nay!
they lengthen the liquid cooling circuit of the car (which goes up to 90 ° in a short time) which they immerse in a tank, in which they put the combustible oil (viscous almost frozen, not even additive!) as well as the filter to fuel for some!
and it goes without problem.
the "hot" engines with indirect injection and bosch pump are without any worries, the others with non-bosch pump require dual fuel, direct injections they need a T ° C probe at the outlet moetur exhaust to control the fuel change according to the engine load.

The engine used is a Citroën 1.4L athmo diesel from AX or, if necessary, a 1.5 which is more reliable, but heavier: this engine (or rather its injection pump) can run on keros with a small addition of oil 2 time.

exact, all diesel engines run on heating oil, which holds at -50 ° C!
at 100% it works but it's too "dry" (volatile) for the injection circuit, you have to add vegetable oil ;-)

[Gregconstruct]

30% reduction in consumption seems pretty huge ...

These are the information given by the interviewee ...

Now these are lab measurements, the flight tests are only going to start! So business to follow!

[Chatham]

you don't understand chatam

You are not an aircraft pilot it seems, me if ...
On an airplane, there is the problem of weight, reliability which must be almost perfect, redundancy, approval on certified aircraft, which has an astronomical cost, which promotes the development of microlights or can do everything provided they stay within the framework of the regulations (weight and minimum speed), which contrary to the opinion of some is very good as it is
(= safety in the event of a crash (lower minimum speed or = 65km / h) and reduced regulations), except that you must not want to make ultra-efficient ultralights ridiculing all aircraft otherwise it is guaranteed drift in terms of price (see the Dynaero MRC ul: very beautiful and good, but abominably expensive ...
Diesel engines with the weight of a gasoline engine (see lighter) have existed since the 30s (Clerget), as "André" has already pointed out, but they are 2-stroke diesel engines with compressor (current examples: "Wilksch" engines and "Zoche" prototypes)
FYI, all large ship engines are supercharged 2-stroke diesel, with an efficiency of 51% which is remarkable ...
Morane-Renault, on the other hand, left in the incomprehensible choice of a 4-stroke diesel, too heavy and too expensive ...
To come to the famous revolutionary compressor for reactors: I think it must be the new NK-93 engine developed by Kuznetsov: it is actually not really a reactor, but a turboprop propelling propellers contra-rotating fairing : it allows flight speeds of the order of 950km / h with a propellant efficiency significantly higher than a conventional blower reactor (close to propellers in fact), but it is still in the process of certification and is characterized by a very large diameter. important...