Hydrogen engine

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jeremie73
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Hydrogen engine




by jeremie73 » 08/01/10, 17:29

Hello dear econologist,

Okay so i'm new to this forum and like many, apparently, I am very interested in the water engine. (the legend : Cheesy: ).

So I read the famous topic "improved electrolysis" (I stopped at the 90th page). I drew as a conclusion that a water engine was not possible (I suspected it a little because of the pitiful performance of a mci).

Anyway, I keep thinking and I thought of making an electrolysis that I would connect at home (on the sector). Then I would inject the gas into a tank in the car.
Since you seem to be quite comfortable with the subject, I would have liked to know your opinion?

It may be completely silly but tell me I'm going to make up for it. : Cheesy:

Merci!
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oiseautempete
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Re: Hydrogen engine




by oiseautempete » 08/01/10, 19:03

jeremie73 wrote:


Anyway, I keep thinking and I thought of making an electrolysis that I would connect at home (on the sector). Then I would inject the gas into a tank in the car.
Since you seem to be quite comfortable with the subject, I would have liked to know your opinion?

It may be completely silly but tell me I'm going to make up for it. : Cheesy:

Merci!


Good advice: forget it!
Indeed, the electrolysis efficiency is extremely bad, it is a huge waste of energy, moreover the hydrogen car is a complete rubbish in the current state of technology: be aware that ALL current prototypes run on hydrogen drawn from petroleum !!! : Mrgreen:
In addition, hydrogen is the smallest existing molecule: it gradually crosses the wall of all the materials used for reservoirs and you need a monstrous volume of hydrogen just to have the equivalent of a liter of essence ...
It is not for nothing that the OBAMA administration stopped net all subsidies to the hydrogen sector ... : Cheesy:
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jeremie73
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by jeremie73 » 08/01/10, 19:44

Thank you for your answer,

in fact I thought of running an internal combustion engine only with hydrogen, but this gas explodes while the gasoline ignites so I do not think that an engine would last long ...

On the other hand, I was thinking more about injecting hydrogen in addition to gasoline to lower consumption.
Like this sports car that runs on petrol and hydrogen:
http://ecologie.caradisiac.com/La-Scorpion-Une-sportive-a-l-hydrogene-718

After for the efficiency of an electrolysis it must be possible to reach something like 60%, should ask more to nlc with all the tests it has done!

And for storage, what is most apparently done is to store the hydrogen under pressure in a tank. The pressure varies from 200 to 700 bars.
The problem is to compress the gas. I have an idea but here I have to go eat ... : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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jeremie73
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by jeremie73 » 08/01/10, 20:30

To compress the gas I thought of the compressor, logical, but it is expensive and it consumes a lot of current, so is it worth it ... I do not know.

So I would like to know, if we make a high pressure resistant electrolysis tank which would be connected to a tank, will the hydrogen form as long as the electrolysis is supplied with electricity or the pressure will prevent the gas to form?
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jeremie73
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by jeremie73 » 09/01/10, 12:08

Well, I don't know if it interests many people, but I continue.

If in a 20L bottle we get a stock of 20L of gas at a pressure of 1.0.325 bars, according to Mariotte's law we can store in this same bottle 457.92L of hydrogen at a pressure of 232 bars.

Estimating that the equivalent of a liter of gasoline is 4.6 liters of hydrogen (at 700bars or 16,1L at 232bars) and that the car consumes 241.5 L / 100km of gas (and yes, on a normal car this is not optimized at all : Cheesy: ) it would have an autonomy of 189 km ... Its seems to me a lot anyway. :frown:

Anyway hydrogen would be mixed with gasoline to improve the combustion of gasoline.

Okay, well, I'm going to start designing the high pressure tank.
Last edited by jeremie73 the 10 / 01 / 10, 14: 44, 2 edited once.
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Flytox
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by Flytox » 09/01/10, 13:00

Here lies jeremie73

Image

A pressurized hydrogen tank adventurer ......

Image

Peace to his innocent and playful soul .....

Image

He left us in a hurry in a big "boom" .....

Image

But at the time of the last judgment, God will be able to recognize his own ...

Image

Not the size of the hole left in the ground by the explosion of the neighborhood, but ....

Image

to the courage and selflessness of his courageous disciples ...

[Cable bang mode OFF]
: Mrgreen:
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
jeremie73
I learn econologic
I learn econologic
posts: 25
Registration: 06/01/10, 20:35




by jeremie73 » 09/01/10, 13:28

: Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
I don't have much day to live if I understand correctly : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:

Well I drew the high pressure tank, I calculated the resistance of the materials and I told you about the plans!
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oiseautempete
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by oiseautempete » 10/01/10, 10:32

jeremie73 wrote:
If in a 20L bottle we get a stock of 20L of gas at a pressure of 1.0.325 bars, according to Mariotte's law we can store in this same bottle 457.92L of hydrogen at a pressure of 232 bars.

Estimating that the equivalent of a liter of gasoline is 4.6 liters of hydrogen and that the car consumes 241.5 L / 100km of gas (and yes, on a normal car it is not at all optimized : Cheesy: ) it would have an autonomy of 189 km ... Its seems to me a lot anyway. :frown:



No: 1 liter of gasoline = 1500litres of hydrogen at ambient pressure or 3L at ... 700bars !!! ... in short all this is so shabby that I do not see the point: ...
In an engine petrol does not burn but explodes ... and can even detonate (very fast and breaking shock wave) for example if the compression pressure is too high ... in general an engine which detonates at full power does not not old ... the last one I saw (following a hacking hack of the turbo relief valve ...) had: melted pistons, broken segments, distorted crankshaft, twisted connecting rods, split engine block and a large hole in the housing made by one of the connecting rods which broke ...
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bernardd
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by bernardd » 10/01/10, 11:24

Flytox wrote:A pressurized hydrogen tank adventurer ......


A volunteer for the Darwin Award ?

By oral transmission of people who made hydrogen by obligation or even by mistake, because working in the field of electrolysis:

it is best to work OUTSIDE, with no possibility of accidental accumulation under the ceiling, near electric bulbs, junction boxes, or non-explosion-proof electric fans.

In addition, outside, any overpressure will be naturally limited, but still not without danger.

hydrogen is odorless and colorless, easily detectable .... except by its combustion ... fast!

And of course, games prohibited for all smokers ... and no phone either, ...

Otherwise, good luck.

I say that about hydrogen, but my desire to test combustion with oxygen at 90% is not much better :-)
Last edited by bernardd the 10 / 01 / 10, 11: 36, 1 edited once.
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by bernardd » 10/01/10, 11:34

Hello,

oiseautempete wrote:In an engine petrol does not burn but explodes ... and can even detonate (very fast and breaking shock wave)


Not consistent with the current definitions of the words combustion and the words explosion / detonation, the latter 2 being synonymous:
http://www.google.ch/search?hl=fr&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:fr-FR:official&hs=9BG&defl=fr&q=define:D%C3%A9tonation&ei=UqtJS676C8SqsQbN7_C8Aw&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title&ved=0CAcQkAE

The difference is actually related to the speed of propagation of the oxidation, depending on whether it is lower or higher than the speed of sound in the medium considered (dependent on temperature, pressure and density among others ...).

The most common current engines are internal COMBUSTION engines, in fact "gas compressed by internal combustion".

And their careless transformation into an internal combustion engine has the effect you describe, ie that "explosion / detonation" and "internal" quickly become incompatible ;-)
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