Bioethanol - what it costs and what it gives

[Chatham]

you could display your german source i'm curious to read that?
because defending the balance sheet of ethanol and of tar sands I don't really understand.

In Brazil they make ethanol (necessarily organic from biomass otherwise it is petroleum mineral methanol) with the remains of sugar cane distillation!
basically what is left is fermentable to make alcohol.
so they recycle waste fuel, a bit like used oil and fries!
knowing that cane sugar is super good. but brief ...

My source is not accessible on the internet, and I had this info (which I quote from memory) by 2 sources with identical figures for what concerns the energy balance, and that one does not make me say what that I did not say !!!: at the beginning it was asserted that it needed more petroleum energy to make ethanol fuel than the energy that we extract from alcohol: it is obviously completely silly ... but it is a fact that it takes more than for Saudi oil ...
You do not seem to know well the process of manufacturing ethanol because what you say is incomplete: either we use cane (or other sugar plants) THAT fuel ethanol, or drinking alcohol (including the start of distillation is generally recycled into fuel ethanol as it is sometimes inedible), i.e. sugar, the plant remains of which after pressing are also used to make ethanol.
When with methanol: it is also called wood alcohol ... the thing that makes pirate distillers blind and crazy ...

[Christophe]

it's obviously completely silly ...

How is that silly? This makes it possible to enrich the oil companies even more ... by making consumers believe that they are consuming "green".

In fact it is "green oil" ... Instead of idiot I would rather say it is very "clever".

Do not forget that it is bush which is at the origin of the dazzling development of ethanol in the USA ... and when you know your "family" ... you can strongly doubt ... (especially at USA is corn which is generally used ...).

This is exactly the same "trick" as with the so-called clean electric car but recharged with electricity from coal.

Here are some "French" figures from the CNAM: https://www.econologie.com/video-confere ... -2991.html
https://www.econologie.com/valorisation- ... -2985.html

Finally, do not mix and assimilate the balance sheets a) oil equivalent and b) CO2 equivalent ...

In fact, oil in the form of fertilizer is not taken into account in the CO2 balance ... are nitrogen oxides from intensive crops only?

[Hasardine]

What shocks me personally, from an ethical point of view, is that certain "life" cultures have been replaced by cultures directed in such a way as to produce Bio-ethanol leaving (see plunging) the peasants in famine and misery, because they were made to glimpse the pecuniary advantages of "green gold".

It is for these reasons that I prefer not to use it anymore!

What shocks me, parcontre on this post, is that in terms of energy performance, you can close your eyes to the human point!

What happened to you?

It's the same concern for soapnuts! we deforest, to supply the European market, but what becomes of the local ecosystem?

[the middle]

What shocks me personally, from an ethical point of view, is that certain "life" cultures have been replaced by cultures directed in such a way as to produce Bio-ethanol leaving (see plunging) the peasants in famine and misery, because they were made to glimpse the pecuniary advantages of "green gold".

It is for these reasons that I prefer not to use it anymore!

What shocks me, parcontre on this post, is that in terms of energy performance, you can close your eyes to the human point!

What happened to you?

It's the same concern for soapnuts! we deforest, to supply the European market, but what becomes of the local ecosystem?

Oops! calms you
Many important things have been said in previous responses.
First, and this is the main flaw of this kind of "exchange of knowledge thoughts", is that it is very difficult to express yourself with a few lines ... you have to take this into account. .
In the previous answers, I find that all the speakers are right.
I have a personal opinion, based on ecological reality (not on the human factor)
I saw on arté the damage caused by the extraction of the oil sands; it is the horror, hundreds of hectares polluted in the long term.. (we use a lot of water to extract the oil from this sand)
It is from my point of view "of man" much more serious than the human misfortune "
Birds think they find lakes to rest, and they die there. Impossible to describe, it is HUGE and for thousands of years ... (nothing to do with the human factor which can always be settled over a few generations)
It's not just Canada, which has a lot of oil sands .... (Latin America ... )
The soil has even been vomiting oil continuously for thousands of years ... (in these Latin American countries)
I like the rant of women, sometimes they have more impact than forums men
Wash nuts? I dropped (for now)
Methanol heating? charming woman, if you had asked the question about econology before buying, you would have avoided a mistake.
We scammed you ... you're not the first.
Continue to stir the shit, you will wake up from the world that seems to abdicate.

What happened to you?

Superb answer; but we shouldn't say that ... it's up to our leaders
Woman, I don't know who you are, but for me, the opinion of women on such important subjects is very, very important, even if they are not champions in technology.
ps invite your friends on econology ...
Alain

[Chatham]

Do not forget that it is bush which is at the origin of the dazzling development of ethanol in the USA ... and when you know your "family" ... you can strongly doubt ... (especially at USA is corn which is generally used ...).

the USA is a little special: them everything that brings back no matter how (like putting a patent on a variety of rice known in India then millennia), they do it ..., initially, alcohol it was Brazil to save the oil they did not have ... yet ...: the processing of alcohol in the factory is carried out by burning the cane ...
For the alcohol production yield, I have the impression that you are deceived by that of ETBE which is made on an petroleum basis ... or that of cereal alcohol, which is currently at barely balanced ... but this method is purely American ... on a sugar basis (beets or cane), or the new method of production from the whole plant, the yield is much better ...

[the middle]

the USA is a little special: them everything that brings back no matter how (like putting a patent on a variety of rice known in India then millennia), they do it ..., initially, alcohol it was Brazil to save the oil they did not have ... yet ...: the processing of alcohol in the factory is carried out by burning the cane ...
For the production yield of alcohol, I have the impression that you are deceived by that of ETBE which is made on an oil basis ... or that of alcohol from cereals, which is currently at barely balanced ... but this method is purely American ... on a sugar basis (beets or cane), or the new method of production from the whole plant, the yield is much better ...

uh ... on the bottom, i agree ... yes, yes nice summary of a few lines

[Hasardine]

What shocks me, parcontre on this post, is that in terms of energy performance, you can close your eyes to the human point!

I will therefore make a modification for the attention of "lejustemilieu"

you can close your eyes to the ecosystem point (all types of living things)!

I would like to point out that respect for the living should undoubtedly be the primary goal of ecology, whether plant, animal or human, and whatever the sex! thus as long as you call me "woman", I will call you male (with all that that represents of primitive!)

to your attention: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcBIX6ptLmY

[the middle]

will call me "woman", I would call you male (with all that represents primitive

!)
It's cute all full, I love
In addition, there is a monkey at the end of the clip ... if you saw my chest ... that's almost it! Even the hostopath said to shave me, because he can't spread his cream; I died laughing... collapsed.

[Christine]

... me too I laugh but not for the same reason ...

Welcome Hasardine! I refrained from answering this tease from just about middle because I was sure that you would know very well how to do it yourself: that's done

Ce forum is very masculine, they have made it their territory and do not hesitate to make us feel it. So it takes a lot of character to help them relativize their cookie-cutter judgments and overcome their belief in "conspiracy" at all costs.

So welcome!

[Hasardine]

Thank you Christine, you comfort me in the idea that certain reflections stank of machismo!

I feel less alone.

well, let's move on to this page, because all of the answers I had didn't have this connotation, quite the contrary, I find great help on this forum (but I'm going to be called a floodeuse!)

Going back to bio-ethanol, I am renting in a large house heated by fuel, my initial idea was to reduce our CO2 production (for that it was pretty good), but as said, from a point from an ethical point of view, I came back.

These gentlemen would they have an honest solution to offer me (and not technical gibberish please!) Women want something concrete!