Master 1994, diesel engine new, running on oil ??

crude vegetable oil, diester, bio-ethanol or other biofuels, or fuel of vegetable origin ...
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Woodcutter
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by Woodcutter » 09/08/08, 18:43

Hey, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one to tell Jonule that he takes it a bit too easy to "advise" oil beginners ...

Too bad this kind of "extremism" scares off seemingly interesting people ... :|
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by Woodcutter » 09/08/08, 18:55

jonule wrote:[...] what you should know: at 30% oil, the difference in viscosity is negligible for an engine. [...]
Apparently this is not true ...
The dynamic viscosity of such a mixture is at 20 ° C of 7centiPoise against 3 for the GO.
At 10 ° C it is 4 and 10 and at 0 ° C it is 6 and 17.

From what I've learned, this can sometimes be enough to disrupt the operation of very high pressure injection systems.

Note: the viscosity of pure HVB is 10 cP at ... 85 ° C!
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by jonule » 11/08/08, 11:22

Woodcutter wrote:Hey, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one to tell Jonule that he takes it a bit too easy to "advise" oil beginners ...

Too bad this kind of "extremism" scares off seemingly interesting people ... :|

well? who do you think You Are ?
by the way are you driving in oil?
do you only know the viscosity of the ricard?

"apparently that's not true": I apparently know he's a good friend of mine, he made me check what I'm saying ... otherwise how can you prove such a statement?

: Cheesy:


it depends on the T ° C, knowing that it is not 20 ° C in an engine (apparently I say of course) or in an injection pump ... well, are we talking about HVB ... rapeseed? sunflower? on what standard?
Besides ... how do the German manufacturers who offer, in a new version, the kit installed on the high pressure vehicle, Bicheron? they lie you mean
well ... it's worth a hell of a report, isn't it? come on, we're counting on you!
"Lumberjack against elbow grease"! suspense : Mrgreen:
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by Christine » 11/08/08, 11:34

jonule wrote:well? who do you think You Are ?
by the way are you driving in oil?
do you only know the viscosity of the ricard?

For the ricard as on forums, the main thing is moderation ... :|
Last warning .
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by jonule » 11/08/08, 11:41

I wanted to know if Bucheron was running on oil to have such fears and what his experience was.

for the ricard it is to mess around is necessary many times.

the filtration and the T ° C on the oil are legion in the debates, and advance the thing, fortunately. well there are amalgams, contradictions, but it takes time: it's been 5 years that it lasts and it is necessary that it advances.

> and if he knew that in Germany they sell new cars with the kit on request, and that they did it on high pressure and common railings, and that the oil is distributed on the side of the road, and that it will be legalized in September in France.

and you did you know? -)
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by Woodcutter » 21/08/08, 00:17

jonule wrote:[...]
well? who do you think You Are ?

I take myself for someone who does not like to see false statements spread, and who therefore intervenes to restore a certain balance.

jonule wrote:[...] in fact you roll in oil?
do you only know the viscosity of the ricard?
If you cared a little more about others and a little less about yourself, you would have the answer to this question: I let you search ...

For the ricard, I do not know and I do not see the point of the question.

jonule wrote:[...] "apparently it is not true": I know apparently he is a good friend of mine, he made me check what I say ... otherwise how can you prove such a statement?
I'm very happy for your friend.
Otherwise, since you were on Oliomobile, you could have seen all these interesting tests done by a forumeur who had a viscometer available and who tested a lot of configuration and mixtures. I got all the curves.


jonule wrote:[...] "it depends on the T ° C, knowing that it is not 20 ° C in an engine (apparently I say of course) nor in an injection pump [...]
Of course it depends on the temperature, but it also influences HV and GO: the GO will always be more fluid than the HV, at the same temperature.

In addition, the critical phase for the operation of an engine, where the difference in viscosity may be dangerous is when it is cold... And there, it can very well be at 20 ° C, 10 ° C, or 0 ° C!


jonule wrote:[...] "Finally, are we talking about HBV ... rapeseed? sunflower? on which standard?
In the information I have, it does not seem to me that the viscosity of the oils used as fuel changes much between rapeseed and sunflower.


jonule wrote:[...] moreover ... how do the German manufacturers who propose, in new version, the kit installed on the high pressure vehicle, bicheron? they lie you mean
Which manufacturers, which cars?

jonule wrote:[...] well ... it's worth a hell of a report, isn't it? come on, we're counting on you!
"Lumberjack against elbow grease"! suspense : Mrgreen:
What is this gibberish? What is your point ? :|
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by jonule » 21/08/08, 09:41

hello lumberjack, I see you posted at midnight, I post at 9am ;-)

Woodcutter wrote:I take myself for someone who does not like to see false statements spread, and who therefore intervenes to restore a certain balance.

you are right and me too
moreover yes I know that you run in oil, but in the mixture, not 100%.
for the ricard it was to mess around;
Woodcutter wrote:Otherwise, since you were on Oliomobile, you could have seen all these interesting tests done by a forumeur who had a viscometer available and who tested a lot of configuration and mixtures. I got all the curves.

Bucheron, it's not the curves that count most to run in oil, what you need is to inject hot oil into a hot engine, for the most part ... I say that because my XUD9TE BOSCH pump starts on 100% cold oil ;-)

Woodcutter wrote:In the information I have, it does not seem to me that the viscosity of the oils used as fuel changes much between rapeseed and sunflower.

of course there is a difference in viscosity between pure oil, mixed with another, pressed at such T ° C, used oil etc! related to T ° C.

Woodcutter wrote:
jonule wrote:[...] moreover ... how do the German manufacturers who propose, in new version, the kit installed on the high pressure vehicle, bicheron? they lie you mean
Which manufacturers, which cars?

the oil in germany is sold / distributed on the roadside (rapsoil, 0.7 €), those who have the kit put it directly in the tank. it's not just those who install the kit, it would be too marginal. as they offer vehicles equipped with flex fuel, it's the same with the HVB kit, I'm thinking of Mercedes.

a bit like the Fendt deutz tractors, sold 100% oil WITH insurance and guarantee, it is not by crossing France that it disappears ;-)
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by Woodcutter » 21/08/08, 22:16

jonule wrote:[...] Bucheron, it is not the curves which count most to run in oil, what it is necessary is to inject hot oil into a hot engine, for the most part ... I say that because my XUD9TE BOSCH pump starts on 100% cold oil; -) [...]
It's great that your PSA engine starts cold at 100% HV, but that's no reason to say that it's possible for everyone!
Those who inquire a little know that BOSCH pumps hold much better in this exercise than other brands, and moreover, the injection pressure is always higher on engines mounted in BOSCH (around 170-175 bars) which favors this exercise which is not always easy for engines ...

The curves are not an end in themselves, don't make yourself more stupid than you seem (sometimes, but not all the time) not to be! :frown:
The curves give information that shows that the viscosity of HV has nothing to do with that of GO as soon as the temperatures drop ...
And even with a mixture of only 30%, some engines, in cold conditions, "know" very well the difference ...

jonule wrote:[...] of course there is a difference in viscosity between pure oil, mixed with another, pressed at such T ° C, used oil etc! linked to the T ° C. [...]
Ah? Could you give me sources to support this?
That viscosity is linked to temperature is obvious, I have only said that from the start.

jonule wrote:[...] the oil in Germany is sold / distributed on the roadside (rapsoil, 0.7 €), those who have the kit put it directly in the tank. it's not just those who install the kit, it would be too marginal. as they offer vehicles equipped with flex fuel, it's the same with the HVB kit, I'm thinking of Mercedes.
For oil at the pump (rapsöl, it is German), I knew it, but it seems to me to have read recently that the number of pumps decreased ... :?
For Mercedes, it's the first time I hear that, it's interesting ...
I only know the case of VAG vehicles modified by the private company VWP (which takes over the warranty on its own).
Do you know which models are affected, at what price? Finally, a little more information, what ...

Regarding "customers" for the HV at the pump, the estimate was 5000 vehicles in 2005.
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by jonule » 22/08/08, 09:33

yes, not all of them start directly on 100% oil, for that you have to make the injectors oversharing at 185 bars so that they are at 180 bars mini (for those below, on indirect injection), mine were 175 origin (405 SRDT), so just a pre-wash pump 50 € and hop 100ù oil in summer ;-)
the BOSCH holds up to 250 bars.

good for the rest I see that we agree, it is necessary to inject hot oil into a hot engine. the others must take + precautions (formalities ;-).

I do not have sources to support the fact that there is not ONE viscosity for the oil and that it is always necessary to specify I agree.

ok for the original kits I will try to resign myself, I ask only that, it would probably be necessary to go there ;-)
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by gaston13 » 25/08/08, 16:02

Woodcutter wrote:
gaston13 wrote:[...] Saches, that lemon sold Berlingots in Indirect Low Pressure Injection (IIBP) until this year. [...]
Huh? : Shock:
And what were these mills?


The DW8B (1.9D atmo)
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