The synthetic meat is here: steak in Vitro!

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
Janic
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by Janic » 17/09/12, 17:52

Janic wrote:
Obamot wrote:
What would be interesting would be YOUR opinion, rather.

It's already done, just reread everything

It seems to me that there has not been a single time, where there has been a calm debate on this subject. Without the fuss and without a dogmatic approach. Not one ... While many agree on guidelines and points of convergence! So it's a shame, isn't it?
It's "normal", everyone defends their convictions with their differences (otherwise it becomes navel-gazing) and with passion.

You had started a thread and I had already encouraged you, but in the end there had been nothing concrete, tangible, practical, no preamble, no plan, no priority ...

I remember this proposal that I did not follow because, despite appearances, I have not been promoting VG for decades, I just try to make connections when this subject is more or less raised. Afterwards, if people are interested, it's up to them to go into the subject in depth, I don't have to act as their guru.
In the same way, I am passionate about theology and each time it is necessary to explain that spirituality and religions are different things, even opposed in certain cases, and as I do not have the vocation to be a guru in this field. nor do I make it a specific subject.

I understand that by your attitude, you want the process to be "individual", which is very commendable and correct. But when the process already exists and there is "a demand", in this case it is necessary to respond to it ....

If people have had the curiosity to delve into the subject, I can compare my approach to theirs, but as an old friend said: “ To talk about mechanics, it is still necessary that the interlocutor has sufficient knowledge of it »
OR so you're trying to protect yourself, somewhere or something ... (but I don't really know.)

No, I'm so used to almost everything that can be or has been said on the subject, that I seem to hear a broken record every time, it's boring, that's all! (But even VGs also take over misconceptions, so !!!)

On the other hand, I do not understand that we can defend the pre-square of VG tooth and nail, and that when it is proposed to make a dedicated constructive thread, we discover resignation.


I am not defending the VG or rather the VGs, but the misconceptions on this subject. If people are interested in the subject, they don't need me given everything there is on the web.
But when I am on a VG site I do not speak more about ecology except when the same kind of ready-made ideas are evoked. Of the kind: " I do not understand the ecologists who eat meat knowing the impact of breeding on the planet And I don't make friends when I send their own attitude back to them by saying " I do not understand either that VG are not green ”And in the same way, I have never created a thread on ecology, others have more or less done it and I only intervene there occasionally.
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by Obamot » 17/09/12, 21:18

... ok, so make a thread on the " misconceptions » : Mrgreen:

It's funny that, as much you are valiant to defend your backyard ... As much when you are kindly asked to share your knowledge with others, you are reluctant to do so ... I still do not understand the notion of "sharing », Which presides over all this. I remain speechless.

Yes I know, you've already given lots of "good reasons" not to do it. But that doesn't seem to convince many people ...

Too bad for your step back, but it's a shame! :?
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by Janic » 18/09/12, 08:36

obamot hello
... ok, so do a thread on "misconceptions"
unfortunately it is not so simple and above all not summary!
For example: it's difficult ! No, on the contrary, it's easy! But it is by forging that one becomes ... a mason! : Cheesy:
We risk deficiencies ! Less than by being omitted! 99,99% of the population does not know anything about food hygiene, eats sparingly and, roughly speaking, does not die of it (right away!) VGs make a little effort to be better informed, but it is as rough otherwise everyone should have a BTS in dietetics VG (which does not exist elsewhere), then after a short time they are content to vary their intake with recipes that they consider to be tastier than before.
It's funny that, as much you are valiant to defend your backyard ... As much when you are kindly asked to share your knowledge with others, you are reluctant to do so ... I still do not understand the notion of "sharing », Which presides over all this. I remain speechless.

So far my "knowledge" has been more disputed than understood (I am not talking about follow-ups since some are only verified over long periods of time as for cancer). Then there are several VG schools: which one to choose? Otherwise it would be discrediting the others! Or quote them all with their differences and you need a 100-page book and the uninitiated will then get lost completely. Already start with Wikipedia which covers the subject (with some misconceptions too, but it is a general reference with its limits)
Yes I know, you've already given lots of "good reasons" not to do it. But that doesn't seem to convince many people ...

I am not trying to convince, but to inform what is different! 43 years of experience have shown me that it is useless. The individual must convince himself, only after he will perhaps take a step.
Too bad for your step back, but it's a shame!

It is not a step back, nor forward. I'm not trying to get people to become VG, just that certain images of Epinal don't continue to be conveyed, it's a simple matter of intellectual honesty.
If the few ecological reasons "evoked do not sensitize environmentalists, it is not the rest that will do better. If you are gardening and absolutely want to plant a plant that only thrives in an acidic environment and you insist on putting it in a basic environment, the plant will wither away. The ideas are the same if the ground (dear to Claude BERNARD) is not conducive useless to try to plant something there, we must wait for the environment to change and then, only then, the idea can gain ground. It may take years… or never!
As far as you are concerned, you have already done 90% of the course, the remaining 10% remain. It's like learning to swim and hesitating to let go of the buoy: Either you are not ready and you have to keep the buoy, or you are ready and it is only by releasing it that you can check if you can t 'pass ... like others before you and me.
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by Obamot » 18/09/12, 10:37

Pfff, it's gone again and still not conclusive .... : Cheesy: : Mrgreen: No:

- the absence of conviction relates to what you are suggesting when your refusal (and not on the fact "whether you would be convincing or not")
- it is not your knowledge that is in question, but rather the paralogisms and others argumentum ad consequentialiam that you use sometimes, when you wouldn't need it given your knowledge, amha.
- you don't know me even better than myself, nor do I know you better than yourself : Cheesy:
- don't take the people here for inexperienced buffoons, many are old enough to know that it's up to everyone to take the right step, in the direction that suits them ... : Mrgreen:
- it is definitely not that easy to become VG, you see ...! (If we really want to become one, whether this is the absolute way to go or even if it is irrefutably proven that it is a compelling choice!)

(this is what you reveal above that tells us)

Mebon, the fact is that you dread a lot to share your knowledge, whatever the reason / s : roll:
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by Janic » 18/09/12, 11:18

I pass on the rest!
Mebon, the fact is that you dread sharing your knowledge a lot, whatever the reason (s)

to fear what? That my "knowledge" does not correspond to those of interlocutors? If they corresponded, they would not need my knowledge, if they do not correspond, it becomes grounds for dispute.
- it is not your knowledge that is in question, but rather the paralogisms and other ad consequentiam argumentum that you sometimes use, when you would not need them given your knowledge
so if my mode of expression goes through my "paralogisms" and this mode is not suitable, we must look elsewhere where it is more suitable. what more can be said?
So call it dread, refusal, useless or whatever, I'm not trying to convert anyone. For those who want to know more, there is the web and its many and varied points of view.
Finally, I do not ask to be believed, but to be verified by experience and, there, any intellectual approach is not enough.
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by Obamot » 18/09/12, 19:12

Janic wrote:
Obamot wrote:Mebon, the fact is that you dread a lot to share your knowledge, whatever the reason / s

to fear what? That my "knowledge" does not correspond to those of interlocutors? If they corresponded, they would not need my knowledge, if they do not correspond, it becomes grounds for dispute.

Uh! Is it that bad ...! : Cheesy:

Janic wrote:
Obamot wrote:- it is not your knowledge that is in question, but rather the paralogisms and other ad consequentiam argumentum that you sometimes use, when you would not need them given your knowledge
so if my mode of expression goes through my "paralogisms" and this mode is not suitable, [...] Alors call it dread, refusal, useless or whatever

I call it "as it is called"( : Lol: ) No more no less.

In an ultra defensive position, this is hardly tenable indeed. Especially when there is no opponent in front ... : roll:
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by Janic » 19/09/12, 08:12

if they do not match, it becomes grounds for dispute.
Uh! Is it that bad ...!
it does not matter, it is boring!
In an ultra defensive position, this is hardly tenable indeed. Especially when there is no opponent in front ...
The adversary is precisely ignorance on the subject. It is already necessary to seek to know better this one by a process of personal research (nobody led me by the hand either) and thus already to have an idea, even not thorough, on the subject. After, and only after, there can be an exchange, a comparison. I encounter the same circumstances in theology where the vision of the theme is very superficial with preconceived ideas linked to a pro and anti-religious culture.
It is, moreover, the desire to explore a subject in greater depth that shows the real interest experienced.
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by Obamot » 19/09/12, 17:22

Observation: who thus arrogates to himself the right to assess the level of ignorance of others? : Lol:

To imply that he would have the "truth»For him ... A fun approach from a pedagogical point of view. (If we can say) : roll:

: Cheesy: I read and reread it, and I still can't believe it: so Janic "would he know"and would he leave the others in the dark on the pretext of their supposed ignorance ...? Since he would have eventually assessed - of its immense size - that there would not be here the level of "gait»Required which would justify that he deigned to post ... Nah, pinch me guys, I still can't believe it !!!

It would even appear that he would draw a parallel between food and religion (note that this is not forbidden ... it is just the step in the form of an exclusionary background which .... how to say .. . uh .... menfinbref ... leaves me completely dubious ...)

: Mrgreen: i prefer not to comment on that guys : Shock: : Cheesy: 8)
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by Janic » 19/09/12, 19:48

Observation: who thus arrogates to himself the right to assess the level of ignorance of others?
excellent reflection!
who arrogates the right to assess a child's level of knowledge or ignorance? the teacher.
What defines whether a teacher is qualified to teach? What he knows more than what is taught.
How does he know he knows more than the taught? When the latter requests this teaching.
Without demand, no supply!
To imply that he would have the "truth" for him ... Fun approach pedagogically. (If we can say)
what is the truth? Confucius gave this answer: "Better a gram of practice than a ton of theory "and that august Lumière also expressed:" Single source experience of truth"
I read and reread it, and I still can't believe it: thus Janic "would know" and would he leave the others in the fog on the pretext of their supposed ignorance ...?

So you misread. Whoever wants to know, is looking for this one, the only limit to this research is only himself. And the internet is an abundant source of information. Therefore, no more personal claim to knowledge, no more greatness or whatever.
Since he would have eventually evaluated - of his immense size - that there would not be here the level of "step" required which would justify that he deigned to post ... Nah, pinch me guys, I still believe in it. not!!!
Still poorly read, This is why I invite the reader to go through a channel other than myself and to make up his own mind. If he already has a knowledge, it will be comforted (or not), if there is a lack of knowledge, his research will allow him (perhaps) to find the answer he is looking for.
i prefer not to comment on that guys

Too late it's done and then "guys", it seems to boil down to two!
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by Christophe » 31/07/13, 01:24

after: http://m.20minutes.fr/sciences/1194011- ... 0000-euros

SCIENCES - Next Tuesday, a few "happy few" are to taste a 140-gram pavé of synthetic beef in a London restaurant ...

290.000 euros per steak. A bit expensive for a steak of beef - even Kobe beef (Wagyu) is not as expensive - but that's the price that will be offered next Tuesday for a steak of 140 grams of beef in a London restaurant.

This exorbitant price is explained by the fact that this steak is synthetic: it was grown in the laboratory from beef stem cells, explains The Independent. Mark Post, Dutch biologist from Maastricht University behind this creation, developed his paving stone in four steps.

(...)
Last edited by Christophe the 31 / 07 / 13, 19: 54, 1 edited once.
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