The "Potager du Laesseux" in the Dordogne

[Did67]

and an already too small vegetable garden!

I'm laughing !!!! It's been 4 years since I enlarged, I enlarged and it's always too small !!!

[Lachanette]

I just watched the video where Gilles Jamain talks about the pH of the soil (already mentioned by Isentrop in the main thread on page 197)
According to him, the optimum pH is 5,82, or in a range of 5,5 to 6,5, which is what I find between 5 cm and 15 cm deep in my soil!
As long as he is right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTMxNQP2G4E&t=6s

[Did67]

I haven't seen the video, but someone posting 5,82 loses all credibility for me!

1) We do not measure the pH of a soil, but that of the soil solution: the pH of a soil X at a location Y depends on how it is measured ... a standardized measurement (soil analysis laboratory): it is not then more "precise", it is just that all the values ​​of this laboratory are comparable ...

2) An optimum pH is a compromise between 36 things:
- the life of soil organisms, some of which prefer acidic environments (fungi), others neutrality (bacteria); worms hardly support acidic pH (it "tickles" their skin - like a coca-cola the mucous membrane of your mouth) -, so already, it depends on who you choose to favor ...
- plants: the "need" of plants is variable; while a large majority prefer soil around neutrality, some are acidophilic, others prefer alkaline soils (actually, not really, but they need a lot of calcium, which induces an alkaline pH).
- certain essential elements become insoluble when the pH becomes acidic
- others when it becomes alkaline (for example iron; yellowing of the leaves, except the ribs, then appears, called chlorosis)
See on this document the variations in solubility of certain elements: http://www.cannagardening.ca/fr-ca/le_p ... os_plantes

3) I think that nature is naturally well made and a pile of well made compost tends towards neutrality or a very slight acidity (probably the activity of mushrooms in the maturation phase).

I think a pH recommendation is bound to be a wide "range" and probably falls on the side of light acidity. For me, I think a benchmark is 6 to 6,5 and that 1 unit around this area, there is no need to panic anyone! Not to mention the fact that "it depends" on what you are going to plant ... Plants of forest origin (red fruits, strawberries) probably prefer a lower pH.

[Ahmed]

I also think that one should not make a "fixette" on the PH, on the grounds that one knows, more or less, to measure it, whereas so many other important things escape us in important and variable proportions .
On this subject, many things that are said or written are questionable; I myself mentioned the case of spruce stands which would acidify the soil, but it is not certain that this acidification (which is recorded) results from the spruce, but perhaps the management, usually dense of these trees with opaque foliage, acts unfavorably on the mode of evolution of the litter, all the more that the other species are eliminated, as well as the lower stage of the vegetation (herbaceous layer).
Nature is more complex than you can imagine ...

[Lachanette]

I haven't seen the video, but someone posting 5,82 loses all credibility for me!

Well, what kept you from watching the video before answering?

[gek]

Even in a chemistry lab, measuring a pH of 5,82 and believing in it is showing that you don't understand much about the uncertainties in the measurements. Very good, well calibrated pH meters are reliable at 0,2 ...

[Did67]

Well, what kept you from watching the video before answering?

5,82 ... And something else to do.

Because this 5,82 just doesn't make sense. In the sense of precision, as gek says. And in the sense of "common sense", as I tried to explain quickly.

Afterwards, the reasoning to support it can be funny to watch. I will do it when I want to see a skit.

Now, if you want to "fix" your pH to 5,82, it can be a sport like any other ...

Your question could have been: why am I answering? ... And indeed. sometimes it itches ... But it's not good. I will make an effort to be silent when it does not concern me directly.

[sicetaitsimple]

5,8 (I did not find two hundredths of a point!) This is the target pH for the food solution in soil-less tomatoes for example (type "ph culture without soil" and it leaves articles) .

It is I suppose to this technique that the value quoted in the video refers.

[Did67]

OK !!!

In which case, obviously, it has nothing to do! We are then "in the hospital" - all on IV, pure chemistry ... We have killed all life. We bring everything in soluble form [and get tasteless tomatoes, but we don't care since people buy them anyway!].

A soil must offer the compromised pH to living organisms (5,8 would be too acidic for nitrifying or fixing bacteria, for example) for them to work well; all reactions, especially solubilizations, must be ensured (very exactly, avoid insolubilizations at extreme pH, with risks of toxicity linked for example to excess aluminum ...).

This cannot therefore serve as the basis for a soil that we want to live. We first think of soil organisms and what suits them!

If so, that would confirm my "hunch".

[Did67]

As long as he is right!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTMxNQP2G4E&t=6s

I looked at the beginning: it does refer to hydroponics (twice). And then he goes on to the fact that plants "feed on organic matter in the soil".

Follow my reasoning: on the Ferrari racing circuit, their prototype runs at 320 km / h with ceramic valve engines which runs at 16 every / min ... blab bla bal ... so if you are riding in difficult terrain , if you want to cross the Sahara safely, you need a motor with a ceramic valve which rotates at 000 rpm. That's pretty much the shortcut it does.

In living soil, we nourish living organisms, which have requirements. In Alsace, we know that a rollmops (raw herring fillet) is preserved in vinegar without having been heated. In this acidic environment, bacteria do nothing !!! Bacteria do not support acidic environments. Worms don't like them ... He doesn't know, guy! It has its nutritive solution at pH 5,82 ...

In our vegetable gardens, it is these organisms that feed the vegetables ... Not an infusion of nutrient solution regulated by computer from the other chemist who calls himself an agronomist ...

Sorry, I picked up when he got into another nonsense: the plants take inevitably [he says] the nitrogen in the organic matter of the soil ... Look at Hervé Coves who sketches a polite smile (he had to restrain himself so as not to burst out laughing) when the other says that: Mass is said [ Hervé Coves, besides being a good agronomist, is also a monk of I don't know what obedience anymore] ... He seems to ignore that part of the nitrogen which is in the cycle of nature comes from fixation symbiotic by legume bacteria (and even the essential before nitrogen fertilizers!).

No time to waste. I prefer my nap.

So I maintain that what this guy is saying is "NAC".