The "Potager du Laesseux" in the Dordogne

[Did67]

On mulched bands, mulching has not completely disappeared. Is it because of the tarpaulin? Is it because of the materials used? Is my life on the ground sufficiently active? (At 20 depth cm, I have a pH of 5 ...)

We mowed green grasses that are spread on the old mulch (not sure it is a good idea?), Then unroll two rolls of hay. Luckily, the son came to give a helping hand! Well, in fact, we did the hay for two, but I had to take the picture.


I took the opportunity to colonize a new corner of meadow. I love to enlarge the garden at so little cost!
It now has an L shape and makes 150 m². It was 16 m² last year.

1) Normal and happy that the mulching has not disappeared !!! Especially in winter, the activity of organisms stops (for some) or slows down for others. As there is no culture, it must not decompose, otherwise it produces nitrates, which would end up in the groundwater. Natural gardening which would pollute would be a shame !!! So the system is coherent: cold ground, it slows down considerably. At the end of winter, there is often a "delay in ignition" compared to a garden in bare soil. Leave the neighbors to fuss, your turn will come! Once warm, your blanket will decompose, nourish your vegetables, produce the mineral elements they need. About the same time they need it (come on, with a little delay).

Then, of course, the nature of the materials play: the more we go towards the woody, the BRF, the barks, and the more it lasts (sometimes up to 10 years!).

2) Grasses that are already fairly developed have fibers ... It is less worse than mowing. But beware anyway. In the presence of vegetables, always used after drying. The risk of toxicity by fermentation still exists in green ... Otherwise, it is a "fairly fast" and "fairly rich" substance ...

3) One of the "flaws" of this method! Me too, I have grown again this year, for the 4th year in a row!

[denis17]

Nice surface in any case, I have the feeling that there is something to plant, you have what surface?
Denis, "neighbor of 17"

Thank you for your visit, in fact it is an old agricultural property, there are 23 hectares, but my 4 thousand m² of vegetable garden and fruit trees occupy me widely, I just plant 30 fruit trees since 3 years.
The advantage of all this surface is to have 2 hay plots of 4 hectares. The more I invested in a wood shredder I clean.
cordially

Ha yes, nice surface. And for the crusher, it is unavoidable, I have one 5 years and I do not regret the investment.
Denis

[Lachanette]

Thank you, Didier, for this feedback!

A) I consider that all organic matter is intended to return to the ground, on the surface, for an aerobic decomposition (in the presence of oxygen). So I no longer use plastic sheeting, but I reassure you, I started with the same stupidity!

I had the impression that the special mulching tarpaulins, which let the water through, would also let air pass? In any case, there were U to hold them at both ends and the length was maintained by big stones (not big enough because the storms of February made them fly away)

c) Old straw: no notable difference with "new" straw. But it remains a poor material, to be supplemented with a sufficient quantity of grass clippings.
e) The old trunk, if it does not weigh much, it is because most of it has already been digested and has gone "in the air" (CO²). Something remains that is close to the ashes! Nothing harmful. Work for not much ...

It had the advantage of freeing the space of the barn, where I had to return from the wood ... A cross-chased, somehow
In addition, I was a little obsessed with lignin, in the hope of favoring water retention, because we have famous heatwaves in summer and I have a sandy-clay-sandy soil (46 sands %, Silts 23% clay 31%, in first approximation homemade). This compote of poplar wood was anyway easy to take.

d) Fig tree: beware of false evidence; I made my tests of asparagus "without work" in dead leaves of walnut trees, with the very bad reputation; the test is completely correct (even if frosts and voles mean that it is not perfect!). The latex of the fig tree can have irritating "virtues" for human skin and be of great interest to organisms. Observe the rate of decomposition.

Yes, I also put walnut leaves!
I have not seen many leftovers from BRF, but as always when I am there for short stays, I am too rushed by the urgency of things to do. I did not take the time to look at it in detail. I will pay more attention this time.

F) If your pH is at 5, you can go gradually, but more generously with wood ashes ... Are you on a schistous basement?

Well no! We have a limestone outcrop on the ground! All this part of the Périgord is limestone at 100%. I was very surprised at this pH measurement. I have the same measuring device yellow and black as you. PH 7 surface which gradually descends until 5 when the probe is completely depressed.
I think it is the effect "old meadow never fertilized + the presence of three huge pluri-centenary poplars * that have acidified the soil. There is also a yellow clay lens 20 cm deep on the second part meadow which I do not cultivate, and which is humid, even flooded part of the year. But there is not this clay bench under the vegetable garden, or so deeper. I would like to have your opinion there -above!
In any case, for the wood ashes, no problem: the cantou gives me to resell!

* Century-old: I do not joke. A poplar, already enormous in 1964, and which collapsed there is 6 or 8 years ago was actually already a regrowth of multiple trunks that had welded with age ... They have been there since at least Napoleon! And it grows again ...

[sicetaitsimple]

I was very surprised at this pH measurement. I have the same measuring device yellow and black as you. PH 7 surface which gradually descends until 5 when the probe is completely depressed.

It's actually very weird! It's just now (after the winter blanket) where it was already before (or a little beside, on an untreated surface)?

[Lachanette]

No, it has nothing to do with the spreading of organic matter ...
The whole garden is like that, and that of my neighbor, to 5m away on the other side of the road, but hay, responds the same way.
surface: 7
-5cm: 6.5
-10cm: 6
-15cm 5.5
-20 cm: 5

[sicetaitsimple]

No, it has nothing to do with the spreading of organic matter ...
The whole garden is like that, and that of my neighbor, to 5m away on the other side of the road, but hay, responds the same way.
surface: 7
-5cm: 6.5
-10cm: 6
-15cm 5.5
-20 cm: 5

It seems even stranger ... If I were you, I would absolutely clear up this problem because in my opinion a pH5 on the horizon 20cm in a vegetable garden it is better to stop right away ..... or take measures.

The first explanation is that the measure is false. I work for a long time in the industry, when we detect an outlier value we start by first checking that it is not the sensor that disconnects. A Chinese consumer pHmetre to a dozen euros is worth what, how is it calibrated, does it correct moisture that will vary with depth? In short I would do a test with a small chemical kit available in all the garden centers (neudorff for example without wanting to advertise, there are certainly others).

If it is confirmed (honestly I believe little), there your chimney ashes will serve well, because if they are providers of potassium (a lot) and phosphorus (a little), they are above all providers of calcium, under Form of lime, which will raise the pH.

And you can already dedicate 2 or 3 m2 to a test of massive ash supply, with and without incorporation, you will see well by measuring then it does not cost nothing.

[jpbord]

Here is a succinct presentation of the history of my vegetable garden in the Sarlat area.

In April of last year, I still have only a mini vegetable garden classically broken by the force of my old arms, and torn from an old prairie full of couch grass! For avoid To limit the prairie reconquest, I cover the outline.

April 2016.JPG

But as I have already discovered Dominique Soltner, I try to mulch as I can, with what I find, old straw and flax flax (ouch ouch ouch, that was not a good idea ...)

May 2016.JPG

On the Last of Saints' Day, always following Soltner's advice, I create fixed boards separated by small covered walkways, and without any cleaning of the ground, nor pitching, I straw with the means of the edge.
I bought a shredder, so
BRF of fresh hazel
BRF de figuier (that either, it is probably not a good idea, I have since read that the milk of the fig tree, it was not top)
and also ...
Very old centenary straw (bof, bof?),
Old poplar heart fallen into decay (lignin supply?)
All that I can pick up of dead leaves (but they are just beginning to fall)
A bit of lawn mowing
A little hay (but I do not dare to put too much, for fear of seeds: I have not yet discovered phenology ...)
A slight addition of wood ash

October 2016-1.JPG

Finally, as I'm going to abandon the vegetable garden for 6 months, I cover the whole with a mulching tarpaulin that lets the water pass, because otherwise I completely trust this prairie to regain the upper hand!

October 2016-2.JPG

I spend six months of winter discovering phenology!
When I return to the month of April, after unburdening:

April 2017-1.JPG

I am quite satisfied with the appearance of the earth. Quackgrass comes fairly easily. I took the opportunity to clean a border strip that had not been mulched (left in the picture).
On mulched bands, mulching has not completely disappeared. Is it because of the tarpaulin? Is it because of the materials used? Is my life on the ground sufficiently active? (At 20 depth cm, I have a pH of 5 ...)

April 2017-2.JPG

We mowed green grasses that are spread on the old mulch (not sure it is a good idea?), Then unroll two rolls of hay. Luckily, the son came to give a helping hand! Well, in fact, we did the hay for two, but I had to take the picture.

April 2017-3.JPG

April 2017-4.JPG

I took the opportunity to colonize a new corner of meadow. I love to enlarge the garden at so little cost!
It now has an L shape and makes 150 m². It was 16 m² last year.

April 2017-5.JPG

After that, there was planting of potatoes, sowing of green beans a little late (for the beginning of July, we will see), transplanting of white onions and salads ... We will have to see what it gives. I'll be there next week, I can not wait!

Good courage I have just spent the day at the vegetable garden before the storm happens! I would make pictures which are often more explicit as possible (big relief on the part where I put my hay + manure of my chickens and rabbits, practically no weeds) by this by the apple peelers of Land that we germinated all alone I will leave what one to see.

[Did67]

It seems even stranger ... If I were you, I would absolutely clear up this problem because in my opinion a pH5 on the horizon 20cm in a vegetable garden it is better to stop right away ..... or take measures.

The first explanation is that the measure is false. I work for a long time in the industry, when we detect an outlier value we start by first checking that it is not the sensor that disconnects. A Chinese consumer pHmetre to a dozen euros is worth what, how is it calibrated, does it correct moisture that will vary with depth? In short I would do a test with a small chemical kit available in all the garden centers (neudorff for example without wanting to advertise, there are certainly others).

If it is confirmed (honestly I believe little), there your chimney ashes will serve well, because if they are providers of potassium (a lot) and phosphorus (a little), they are above all providers of calcium, under Form of lime, which will raise the pH.

And you can already dedicate 2 or 3 m2 to a test of massive ash supply, with and without incorporation, you will see well by measuring then it does not cost nothing.

I also incline to a measuring artifact! This device does not measure the pH itself, it estimates it on the basis of conductivity between such and such a metal ... Moisture interferes ...

It would be worthwhile to get some pH paper on the internet (the one used for urine; there are some with two colored dots, more precise) and to make an already more precise "analysis" ...

Because of the decalcification of the surface, in calcareous soil, this happens (the calcium ions, although retained, over the centuries are trained, especially if acidifying fertilizers are used). The reverse, decalcification in depth while on the surface is well provided: bizarre, mystery and BIG DOUBT!

So until proof to the contrary: mollo ashes (I thought you could be on crystalline slopes, schists, etc. that could be acid).

[Lachanette]

thank you jpbord
You agree to give me a place in this connection that you created, it does not bother you? As you gave a pretty open as I launched myself without hesitation, it was after that I wondered if I had done ...

[Lachanette]

For did67 and sicétaitsimple

I planned a soil analysis this spring (in lab) Maybe it will give an idea ... But if I mix the different depths, it may not be speaking.

Or I take ground at 20 cm deep, mix it with rainwater and plunge the probe into it? I will also measure the pH of the well water.

The causes I mentioned did not seem to speak to you, in any case, the acidification of old meadows and the role of fungi due to the presence of old poplars ...

In any case the kitchen garden has relatively well given the previous years, so I do not worry too much!

To be continued...