The lazy garden made in northern Elsass

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
sicetaitsimple
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by sicetaitsimple » 27/12/17, 14:30

torrent wrote:
After a little reflection, and do not take it for truth because I do not have the necessary knowledge to support: the basement being (much) colder (close to 0) that the surface of the soil in contact with the warmer air, can be that it is only a kind of condensation which stagnates because of a very clay soil.

ps: I didn't say it but this theory is quite smoky : Mrgreen:


No, it's not smoky. Condensation, as can be seen in some old houses, occurs at cold spots, windows for example.

Again I do not think that your geothermal sensors have a real influence on the surface temperature given the depth at which they are buried, even if it can only go in the direction of cooling.

But your soil is certainly more difficult than others to warm up, hence this condensation, personally in the spring I discover the surface concerned when sowing or planting so that it heats up faster.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Did67 » 28/12/17, 10:39

torrent wrote:My glass of land population has increased significantly since the start. Much is quite subjective, but I think there is enough to start draining the soil a little.


Warning: not all worms are "effective". There is a certain probability that they are the epigés, those that I call the "wankers", in the sense that, apart from breaking down organic matter to feed themselves, and "pissing off" ammoniacal nitrogen, they do not much effective. And above all, no galleries ...

I maintain my fear that your sensors will upset the "anecics", the useful worms therefore, those which dig vertical galleries, which contribute to the improvement of air and soil circulation; of the structuring of the soil ... They "flee" the surface cold in winter by burying themselves at a depth where it is more or less 12 °. This is exactly where you get your calories by "freezing" (more or less) your soil ...

For me, the explanation of the accumulating water could be explained by the absence of deep galleries.

In your clay soil, would there be? I do not know. But there, it may be a little more complicated.

Ditto for some "perforating" plants thanks to deep taproots: alfalfa, rumex, comfrey ... When one of these roots dies, it creates a natural gallery. There, I fear that they do not cross the "cold front".

Please note: this does not mean that it will not work! A vegetable garden is not binary: it is not either perfect or dramatic. There is a whole range of shades of gray depending on the number of parameters that we manage to optimize or not!

You just got there, perhaps, an annoyance. You have to observe finely. For this, the same practices made in an area without sensors could perhaps have been used!

Perhaps this is one of those situations where making mounds is not fundamentally silly: flow of excess water to the sides; increase the thickness so move away from the sensors ...
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by torrent sites » 28/12/17, 12:57

For the worms I spoke of anecic worms (earthworms), the epigés I have a little on the surface.

The mounds, I had made them in this direction there, but I do not find that they were a success as for productivity (at least compared to the work provided).

To increase the thickness, omitted adding earth trucks, I don't have too many solutions. If I understood your words correctly in the conference, in the best of cases I can gain one cm per year thanks to the verse.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Did67 » 29/12/17, 15:49

torrent wrote:If I understood your words correctly in the conference, in the best of cases I can gain one cm per year thanks to the verse.


No, this should not be understood the wrong way: the activity of anecic worms leads to about 1 cm of soil being brought to the surface. But on the other hand, the average height goes down by as much! So this is not going to lead to "bulging" of the ground.

Only the heavy inert elements "descend", by difference: stones, slabs, fences, etc. that the worms do not rise ...

Let's summarize:

- on the surface, the soil remains stable
- approximately the last cm of soil is renewed each year in a living soil, rich in anecic worms (by the turricules)
- inert objects placed on the ground therefore seem to descend ...
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by torrent sites » 29/12/17, 21:33

Well, I have more than to bring back from the earth .. or else I continue the experiment with this height story to see what it gives in time.
If it continues in the momentum I will not modify too much (why cover an earth which has "deteriorated" over time)
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by torrent sites » 15/04/18, 13:13

Hello everybody

some news from my vegetable patch:
-tomato sowing was not a success this year : Shock: (half less than last year, but I'll be happy with it).
-with this somewhat "bizarre" winter my fall hay blanket literally melted: I who wanted to test by discovering a part to accelerate the warming and drying of the soil I was served :(
-I don't have a bit of hay available to cover and last year was not a good year for hay. So out of stock in the corner and the last to have a few extra roundballs sell them for almost 30 € each : Evil:

the only good news is that i managed to recover for free a roundball of straw that had rolled down a slope towards a river yesterday (it was sport to go up it). So this start of the season will be straw mulching with fresh mowing to balance a little nitrogen
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by torrent sites » 10/05/18, 09:14

the season is officially launched at my place with the transplanting of tomatoes in the vegetable patch.
I still have about 60 different and varied cabbages to plant tomorrow (there it is raining).

I still tend to loosen the soil well where I plant or sow. but I found a good ad for not working the soil (a garlic fell under a shed last year and that I had not seen).
here we are at the edge of clay but during heavy rain there is a little water flowing at this place:

DSC_0601.JPG


the guy is well rooted
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Did67 » 10/05/18, 10:27

Yes, more proof, if not necessary!

A reflection shows us that the rooting depth of any plant is considerably greater than the depth at which the soil is worked: 20 to 30 cm maximum. How do plants do beyond this threshold ????

For your information, this table of "useful depths" [this is in relation to the thickness of the soil taken into consideration for irrigation calculations - in fact, plants go much further]

Screen Shot 05-10-18 at 10.17 AM Rooting depth.PNG
Screen Shot 05-10-18 at 10.17 AM Rooting depth.PNG (102.25 KB) Viewed 2010 times


Or :

Screen Shot 05-10-18 at 10.22 AM Root depth 2.PNG
Screen Shot 05-10-18 at 10.22 AM Root depth 2.PNG (60.99 KB) Viewed 2010 times



We can see that in general, the "superficial scratching" (even when it is a question of deep plowing with a tractor of 200 HP) is little compared to the volume explored by the roots. It is therefore obvious that this "perforates" soils which have not been worked.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Ahmed » 10/05/18, 12:28

This remark is all the more relevant as the tillage generally creates (unless a passage of heavy chisel or subsoiler is carried out in addition) a plow base which is extremely more compact than the "natural" soil.
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Re: The lazy garden made in northern Elsass




by Did67 » 10/05/18, 12:32

Yes. I didn't want to complicate. Just underline this sort of contradiction between very superficial work, especially in the vegetable garden where a tiller rarely descends beyond 15 cm and the rooting depth of the vegetables ... We are satisfied with a kind of "foam" that hits to the eye, the surface loose earth ... If this is not being naive, that?

Because "plow sole" is a reductive expression: the work of rotary tools can also "smooth" the ground with great efficiency and create such obstacles!
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