Re: Potager du lazy in western France Bretagne-Pays de la Loire

[sicetaitsimple]

is it not rather straw your boot? I have already seen shoots like this on straw at my father's house. Maybe even grains of wheat that germinate (whatever is very fine on your photo.)?

I am a little of the same opinion: the photo is not of very good quality, but it looks more like straw, with a few seeds of the cereal delivered as a bonus during the harvest. But hey, nothing certain.

[Julienmos]

1) What did you use as green manure?

green manure is a mixture of phacelia, clovers and Italian ryegrass. The phacelia quickly took over and almost smothered the rest ...
it had developed well, and now it's lying on the ground, it still seems alive, green ...
but anyway either it perishes under the frost, or I mow at the end of winter.

Regarding the BRF: I put it in a relatively thin layer, 2 or 3 cm.
But in this case, with each period of dry weather, it will dry out quickly enough, which will slow down or stop its decomposition ... it therefore seems preferable to cover it (hay, dead leaves, etc.) so that it keeps humidity?

[phil53]

I wrote it in the first few pages of the original long discussion thread, before knowing this technique, I had noticed that on hay in a pile in a field of germinating seeds. At least in the Pays de Loire and Brittany region where the weather is often mild in winter.
This summer I collected some grass seed which was crushed. Soon after the first rains full of seeds germinated. I covered a large part of it with hay which has fermented a little. The problem is solved but I kept control areas to see the evolution. I think like Didier. Once the seed is used up it will dry up because the roots will not have reached the ground.
Well, I believe.

[Did67]

Interesting!

This would be a first sign of necessary adaptation to the climate.

And this confirms the need to put thick layers so that this seedling does not take root, but remains in undecomposed hay, where it will not find food ...

But beware of the roots !!!! They spin !!!

[Mixieer56]

Interesting!

This would be a first sign of necessary adaptation to the climate.

And this confirms the need to put thick layers so that this seedling does not take root, but remains in undecomposed hay, where it will not find food ...

But beware of the roots !!!! They spin !!!

I confirm that it is indeed hay even if the photos are misleading. I will not fail to relate the evolution of my spreading.
I take note of the need to put on thick layers which probably also means recharging from time to time.

[Mixieer56]

Regarding the BRF: I put it in a relatively thin layer, 2 or 3 cm.
But in this case, with each period of dry weather, it will dry out quickly enough, which will slow down or stop its decomposition ... it therefore seems preferable to cover it (hay, dead leaves, etc.) so that it keeps humidity?

Having the "luck" to have a lot of dead leaves which cover the ground very largely, the brf spread out for a month now is covered with them. And indeed humidity remains while it has not really rained for the same time, only the sheets of fog cover the ground with dew regularly.

[Did67]

Do we understand, we are never precise enough:

a) yes, it is necessary to cover well, so that the light never reaches the ground, as long as does not want to intervene (in principle, until the harvest): this is the key to "total non-work"

b) the thick layer is therefore understood during placement; a kind of erosion, by decomposition downwards, in contact with the soil, is "expected": we start from sufficiently thick, so that just enough remains at the time of harvest. This is how it should be understood.

It is therefore not necessary to maintain the thick layer throughout, but to put a sufficiently thick layer at the beginning so that despite the decomposition, there is only two or three cm left at the end!

c) To this must be added that at the start of a meadow, there is a perennial in place, which must be "knocked out"; so there particularly !, a good coat is needed.

d) And in the case that concerns us here, with this germination of seeds of grasses (the agronomic name of "herbs"), it is necessary to ensure that the roots of the seedlings do not take root in the earth. Otherwise, they will prosper.

So there, I would say "double reason" to put a good layer at the start ...

PS: This lifting can cause concern. How worried my visitors were at the sight (for them distressing) of such a plank which for lack of treatment with hay in time (because for example of leeks mounted in bloom of which I wanted to collect the seeds) was left fallow ... But You should know that if you are able to transform a meadow into a flower bed without work in one season, what would you fear from a growth of grasses, from a nascent fallow land? Nothing. Just iron with the fatal roller (for the meadow) when the time comes!

[Mixieer56]

Do we understand, we are never precise enough:

a) yes, it is necessary to cover well, so that the light never reaches the ground, as long as does not want to intervene (in principle, until the harvest): this is the key to "total non-work"

b) the thick layer is therefore understood during placement; a kind of erosion, by decomposition downwards, in contact with the soil, is "expected": we start from sufficiently thick, so that just enough remains at the time of harvest. This is how it should be understood.

It is therefore not necessary to maintain the thick layer throughout, but to put a sufficiently thick layer at the beginning so that despite the decomposition, there is only two or three cm left at the end!

c) To this must be added that at the start of a meadow, there is a perennial in place, which must be "knocked out"; so there particularly !, a good coat is needed.

d) And in the case that concerns us here, with this germination of seeds of grasses (the agronomic name of "herbs"), it is necessary to ensure that the roots of the seedlings do not take root in the earth. Otherwise, they will prosper.

So there, I would say "double reason" to put a good layer at the start ...

PS: This lifting can cause concern. How worried my visitors were at the sight (for them distressing) of such a plank which for lack of treatment with hay in time (because for example of leeks mounted in bloom of which I wanted to collect the seeds) was left fallow ... But You should know that if you are able to transform a meadow into a flower bed without work in one season, what would you fear from a growth of grasses, from a nascent fallow land? Nothing. Just iron with the fatal roller (for the meadow) when the time comes!

Understood Did! Cover, cover!
I am now in tune with my educators - parents and teachers - who have often told me "I had a good diaper!"

[Did67]

green manure is a mixture of phacelia, clovers and Italian ryegrass. The phacelia quickly took over and almost smothered the rest ...
it had developed well, and now it's lying on the ground, it still seems alive, green ...
but anyway either it perishes under the frost, or I mow at the end of winter.

Phacelia is a plant with a strong development, especially roots. Hence its use as a green manure: it can quickly "capture" the nitrogen residues from the previous crop; it will also "structure" the soil with its roots ...

It is not a legume, so it does not fix atmospheric nitrogen. Unlike clover.

It is very melliferous, if it is allowed to rise in no flowers.

It is annual but reseeds quite easily ...

And indeed, its resistance to the cold is limited, even if we indicate - 10 ° C. It has surely taken a hit with the sudden onset of low temperatures that we experienced in November ... [the way the cold plays a huge role: when the cold gradually sets in, the plants "concentrate" their juices, to do a little anti-frost; when it comes suddenly, they don't prepare]

[Did67]

Regarding the BRF: I put it in a relatively thin layer, 2 or 3 cm.
But in this case, with each period of dry weather, it will dry out quickly enough, which will slow down or stop its decomposition ... it therefore seems preferable to cover it (hay, dead leaves, etc.) so that it keeps humidity?

A clarification also on this.

At the beginning, rapid decomposition can be seen as a "plus": supplying the soil with mineral elements, therefore "fertilization".

Once your garden is well established, it's more of a problem: you're going to want the layers to last! And it is then a plus that it dries up on the surface!

In my hay, during the season, I observe two things:

- a wet layer, in contact with the ground, in the process of decomposition; it "swarms"; sometimes we see the mycelium; the roots of plants come in search of nutrients; as already written, I come to fear excessive wealth, with its cohort of drawbacks: vegetables "too pushed" therefore more sensitive, leaching of nitrates ...

- a dry layer above, which continues to assume the role of protection; if it rains, it gets wet, but it will dry out quickly (sun, wind); this is a good thing, because if it remained wet, we can neither exclude the emergence of seeds brought by the wind (dandelion "helicopters" for example), nor a too rapid decomposition giving me work: reloading!