New lazy 04 kitchen garden

[Did67]

that I also understand very well, and I think that among permacultures they must be legion,
you don't have the look, you have too much humor, too much self-deprecation, and you are not preacher enough, really you could make an effort to make adhere to the phenoculture
stop saying put a good layer of hay, but say between 21.5 and 24.5 cm north of the Loire, and 20% more north of the Gironde, and 35% south of the Gironde, you will see it will go better

And yet ....
... that's it, it's confirmed, I'm doing them National Permaculture Meetings in Champagné Saint Hilaire near Poitiers, August 24,25, 26 and XNUMX.. With a conf every day [we are still discussing what is best - the same repeated conf or a series of 3 confs treating the question in 3 stages - this second solution having my preference.

And book signing sessions.

[Did67]

that I also understand very well, and I think that among permacultures they must be legion,

I was rather thinking of conventional gardeners (who take me for a permacultor, by the way!) ... Sometimes, I feel that they are confused, and unable to react. With the observation "it does not work!". And they are not wrong: it does not work as "mechanically", as simply, as regularly, as predictably as their old vegetable garden under fertilizers and pesticides (against slugs, there is nothing better, or simpler than blue granules with metaldehyde; then inevitably, an invasion of slugs becomes a prohibitive obstacle!).

[Moindreffor]

that I also understand very well, and I think that among permacultures they must be legion,

I was rather thinking of conventional gardeners (who take me for a permacultor, by the way!) ... Sometimes, I feel that they are confused, and unable to react. With the observation "it does not work!". And they are not wrong: it does not work as "mechanically", as simply, as regularly, as predictably as their old vegetable garden under fertilizers and pesticides (against slugs, there is nothing better, or simpler than blue granules with metaldehyde; then inevitably, an invasion of slugs becomes a prohibitive obstacle!).

coming directly from the conventional, I see a very big difference between before and now already in the amount of work, after I think that the vagaries in resources made that this year, I had a very delayed start, my personal vagaries, have facts that I was not operational at time t, my shortcomings in certain areas, all that is that it is not Lourdes, but Lisieux
example my mother transplanted courgettes in soil of "m @@@ e", she already has a production on plants 5 times like mine, mine transplanted too late and coming from a horticulturalist, while hers come from a personal production
So between conventional and pheno, I find it blatant
on the other hand between perma and pheno, I think that the difference will be less because the perma which pass to the pheno, are too stingy on the hay, and see the hay only as a mulch, and they leave from a soil too impoverished and expect to see the meager crops from before transform into cornucopia and think that it does not bring much in the end, or think that they were already doing pheno, but do not look at the bottom of it

the big changes upset, the small ones give results at the margin

to decide, you would have to return results between conventional and perma, in year n + 1 or even n + 2, so follow

I come from the conventional I am convinced
to be chafoin, which I will qualify (without wanting to be derogatory) coming from the perma remains very skeptical still

[Diabolorent]

I come from the conventional I am convinced
to be chafoin, which I will qualify (without wanting to be derogatory) coming from the perma remains very skeptical still

And I who come from nowhere I am more and more convinced


By the way, by the way, did you see that they found an "ecological" method of making paper?
I give it to you Emile ...... with hay Our hay !!!!!!
There will be competition if that generalizes!

[Did67]

This shows the interest there would be in thinking "globally", in order to act locally. To make paper, the straw would be much better, because more fibers and less "soft matter" (once moistened - this is what comes from the parenchymal tissues of the leaves in particular, partly of the stems too).

I wonder by what wanderings we can come to the idea of ​​making paper with that! No doubt "ecologists" ...

[to be chafoin]

As far as I'm concerned, I've never done permaculture. Certain designs interested me and allowed me to develop my gardening. Some still interest me: cultivating as permanently as possible, hence green manures (etymology of the word), working the soil less, not leaving bare soil (almost systematic mulching), taking care of the fauna and ecosystems , make use of associations and rotations of cultures ... In this sense the forced opposition between "perma" and "pheno" seems a little fabricated to me. Besides, do we really need to create these chapels? Me, the attitudes of followers scare me away and make me suspicious. For example, I never claimed to be "perma" and I never had the strength or the desire to make real self-fertile mounds, I always looked at it with a funny eye and with hindsight I think so much the better. The idea of ​​letting nature take its course has always struck me as a strange whim, a bit magical and I don't believe in the garden of plenty.
I learned to garden on my own, I was certainly inspired by the experiences of each other: I have always practiced rather organic gardening for taste and civic and ecological awareness so I do not understand why here and there we are strives to look down on the "ecologists" and to put everything and anything in this bag. Is it a hidden desire to absolutely stand out in order to create a new church? For my part, I have long since left the paths of the supreme truth even (and especially) if this one is taught to us by official or supposed scientists, then it is not today that I will start to them. follow ... so I don't understand why you absolutely want to put me in a box whose outlines we don't know! I do not proselytize, I have nothing to sell, nothing even to save, perhaps, and I avoid injunctions.
I simply aspire to cultivate a piece of land in the least harmful way to benefit from fresh fruits and vegetables and which will delight my palate if possible. If I can do that by talking to people who have similar aspirations or are close to it, it's much better. If in addition we can laugh a little, then I am delighted! But for decorum and all the tintouin, go show yourself I want to say!

[Moindreffor]

As far as I'm concerned, I've never done permaculture. Certain designs interested me and allowed me to develop my gardening. Some still interest me: cultivating as permanently as possible, hence green manures (etymology of the word), working the soil less, not leaving bare soil (almost systematic mulching), taking care of the fauna and ecosystems , make use of associations and rotations of cultures ... In this sense the forced opposition between "perma" and "pheno" seems a little fabricated to me. Besides, do we really need to create these chapels? Me, the attitudes of followers scare me away and make me suspicious. For example, I never claimed to be "perma" and I never had the strength or the desire to make real self-fertile mounds, I always looked at it with a funny eye and with hindsight I think so much the better. The idea of ​​letting nature take its course has always struck me as a strange whim, a bit magical and I don't believe in the garden of plenty.
I learned to garden on my own, I was certainly inspired by the experiences of each other: I have always practiced rather organic gardening for taste and civic and ecological awareness so I do not understand why here and there we are strives to look down on the "ecologists" and to put everything and anything in this bag. Is it a hidden desire to absolutely stand out in order to create a new church? For my part, I have long since left the paths of the supreme truth even (and especially) if this one is taught to us by official or supposed scientists, then it is not today that I will start to them. follow ... so I don't understand why you absolutely want to put me in a box whose outlines we don't know! I do not proselytize, I have nothing to sell, nothing even to save, perhaps, and I avoid injunctions.
I simply aspire to cultivate a piece of land in the least harmful way to benefit from fresh fruits and vegetables and which will delight my palate if possible. If I can do that by talking to people who have similar aspirations or are close to it, it's much better. If in addition we can laugh a little, then I am delighted! But for decorum and all the tintouin, go show yourself I want to say!

that's what I meant, you have already taken a big step away from the conventional, me not, far from me the idea of ​​putting you in a box, or creating chapels, I just wanted distinguish between conventional (bare soil, digging, Bordeaux mixture, metaldehyde etc ...) and those closer to nature like you

[to be chafoin]

Yes of course that is the real distinction to be made ... You must not make the wrong enemy. Sorry if I got carried away ... Besides concerning the phenoculture me as I said I am rather convinced by number of arguments and by the results visible in the vegetable garden of Didier. After remains to be seen what it can give in the vegetable meadow of my vegetable garden with my constraints and the climate of this year and all these small details that upset all the beautiful theories ...

[Moindreffor]

Yes of course that is the real distinction to be made ... You must not make the wrong enemy. Sorry if I got carried away ... Besides concerning the phenoculture me as I said I am rather convinced by number of arguments and by the results visible in the vegetable garden of Didier. After remains to be seen what it can give in the vegetable meadow of my vegetable garden with my constraints and the climate of this year and all these small details that upset all the beautiful theories ...

we are all there how to adapt and this is where the difficulty goes through this adaptation phase, and it is also there that we await the second book from Didier, not to convince us, but so that the phenoculture grows, so that a greater part persists avoiding errors

[denis17]

Mistakes are part of life, it's also what allows us to learn and move forward, at least for some ...
Denis