Earthworms ... it is how?

[Did67]

To fertilize the land "without inputs" it would be necessary to recycle only what grows on it ...? (which is possible, thanks to solar energy)

No, not quite !

If more than 90% of a plant's dry matter is energy and C, H and O taken from air and water, we cannot do without the other elements (N , P, K) and trace elements ...

If N can also be drawn from the atmosphere, this is not the case for the other elements ... And there, a slow "concentration" from the erosion of parent rocks, from the degradation of minerals is possible. . The dust also brings traces of minerals which sometimes suffice ...

However, depending on the location and the subsoil, this may be insufficient (we do not all have volcanoes) ...

At that time, of course, there will be vegetation, but not necessarily very important, very developed: look at what grows "naturally" on certain moors ...

But it is correct that hay is quite an "input" in the system I practice. With a "horizontal transfer of fertility": the elements taken by the hay in the meadow are transported and introduced into the garden, via the trophic networks ... It is a natural input, as can be manure, compost , potting soil, peat, sawdust ...

[Eco-Challenge]

If you are looking for a little more info on earthworms ...

https://blog.defi-ecologique.com/vers-d ... e-culture/

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

Interestingly, we are pretty much in the same configuration ... very compact clay soil.

Even when the bull made the 60cm deep trenches to bury the greenhouse tarp, we didn't see much .... yet the earth was wet a few centimeters below the surface and no mole on the horizon. .

Hopefully they come with time and necessarily more frequent watering than when we weren't there

To be continued

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

I correct my c .....

Hopefully worms will come in large numbers when we have improved-degraded our very compact clay soil

[Did67]

There must be some ... No "spontaneous generation"!

If so, indeed, it will get better (even if the "anecics" are not very prolific!).

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

It remains that it is energy that dissipates. Energy that the organisms which occupy the soil under the entire cultivated surface will not have ... Now this is where you have to "work" the soil, raise it, "mix" it, feed and maintain the processes. .

I don't see the "progress" ...

[The only case that I understand is the one where, for reasons of constraints, we do not cultivate very small areas: planters, small squares ... When we have a little space, I do not understand the interest or the squares, neither composting, nor vermicompstage. The reasoning error is always the same: obsessing over the supply of nutrients to cultivated plants, instead of seeing energy questions: how to better nourish my soil organisms, so that in the end, it is they who "work" my soil better and nourish the plants better. But it is a whole vision of the mechanisms that must be changed. Otherwise, we discuss in a "vacuum"!]

Yaisse, yaisse, yaisse and yes and re yes

The forest does not compost on a heap in a clearing but at its feet for the beginning of an "immediate" profit why not do the same?

[Did67]

Be careful not to compare your garden too much to a forest, which is a different "system"! Currently, the custard tart is to think that the forest is the "must". This is not true at all, although a large tree can impress the faint of heart ...

The forest is a "slow" system (a tree counts in a hundred years, in a natural forest), where poor substances (lignin) such as dead leaves, dead branches, wood from dead trees dominate, which is a delight. fungi, to the detriment of bacteria which do not have much space; the leaves are emptied of their rich substances before falling, so that this richness remains in the living wood (where possibly it can be made into BRF); therefore the system works by accumulating extremely poor biomasses (lignin; C / N from 300 to 500). Slowly. With ammoniacal nitrogen ... It is, if you like, a big ocean liner engine running on heavy oils ... The productivity of biomass (very poor, inedible for us who are not termites) is mediocre! !!

A garden (except strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, red currants, ...) operates "speed", with plants generally from "open" environments Man has prospered and invented agriculture in the savannahs, not in the forest. The shelf life of vegetables is a few months. It works with nitric nitrogen, therefore needs bacteria, therefore a warm airy soil. The system uses legumes (absent from forests) to "dope" with nitrogen from the air ... Quite the opposite of forest soil. A Ferrari engine, if you will, running super!

At the exact interface of a forest and savannah, on the other hand, these two environments intersect, hybridize and the advantages of each other can then be added: mushrooms / mycorrhizae / networks / mineral extraction / ascent of deep elements + bacteria / symbiotic fixation / nitrification / rapid decomposition of richer organic matter (cellulose instead of lignin, even green matter) ... This is what I try to reconstruct when I try to do advance my vegetable garden on two legs: bacteria AND fungi, which is a hazardous balance. Not a forest floor !!!

You can see the stupidity of taking forest soil as "ideal" !!! But either we try to understand mechanisms, or we follow our "emotions" (the forest is something that impresses us; many people have an irrational fear in the forest at night) ...

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

be careful not to extrapolate too much, reinterpret the writings .....

Replace the term "forest" with the one that suits you best and you will have the meaning of my thought that you had grasped very well I think.

The .......... does not compost for 6 months behind the hut at the bottom of the garden but on its soil for an “immediate” start of profit, why not do the same?

[Did67]

Yes Yes. It was not to contradict at all. But to add a point, a slip that often comes ...

Nowhere does nature, whether it be a savannah, a forest, a mixed system (agroforestry for example) form mounds, spirals, bury aerial organic matter (but the roots remain!) ... So yes, 100 % Okay.

I simply wanted to say "beware of the temptation" very common today, to consider the forest floor to be the best! [you will find videos, on the internet, of people digging trenches in their garden, then looking for soil in the forest (which is illegal) to fill them in !!!]

[Ahmed]

Some remarks, which are not negation of your remarks on the forest, but minor nuances: there are very old systems of nourishing forest, as in Indonesia, where a very large variety of plants selected by the man, in a disorder apparent, coexist in various strata. In addition, the black locust pseudo-acacia is a legume, or, according to the new name, a fabacea ...