How to start a "Lazy Vegetable Garden" easier than permaculture: steps and advice

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Did67
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by Did67 » 20/12/16, 10:26

With the horticultural engineer, in charge of the organization of this day, and of the tests on the site, we agreed on the fact that it would be interesting to "cross" the test with a contribution of wall composts, available in shambles on the site (platform compost).

So the 5 prepared beds are half "mulched in hay" such as (to the left of the red stakes) and half mulched after adding ripe compost. They are 1,50 wide, 6 m long. The aisles are (theoretically - the hay overflows a little) 50 cm ... We should be able to pass with a small mower.

DSC_0028.JPG
Demo Wintzenheim - after addition of compost


And then the whole thing was covered "also" with hay, each "flower bed" is therefore half on the compost, half on bare ground, finally on "mowed ground":

DSC_0054.JPG
Demo Wintzenheim - after hay intake


The "treated" surface is approximately 45 m². It took us an hour to "mulch", knowing that I spent part of my time filming, photographing, that we staked the beds by the meter - and that we "chatted" ! The hay was relatively close, but loose.

I put the hay to the "pif", as I always do. And I took action afterwards.

We spread out with manure forks (4 tines) and “tapped” so that the hay was as little as possible.

Then the layer has an average thickness of at 20 25 cm:

DSC_0046.JPG
hay Thickness


DSC_0049.JPG
hay thickness not packed - Retail


Then, I "hit" this hay with a light board (like a pallet cross member), then put a board on the ground along the flower bed and another askew on the hay: the measured thickness of " top edge "of the board on the ground to the" top edge "of the board placed on the hay without pressing is only a dozen cm:

DSC_0041.JPG
hay Thickness tamped


This approach should allow us to objectify the question a little thickness!

- 25 cm after spreading and "tapping" with the fork
- 12 to 13 cm after tapping with a board, then "stuck" between the ground is this board, without pressing on it
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by Ahmed » 20/12/16, 12:08

"Chat and tapping are the two breasts of phenoculture!" : Lol:
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by papyrazzi » 20/12/16, 12:31

Oh ! Oh !
If I understand your description correctly above, you "tamp" the hay after having spread it with a fork? That I did not do!
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by Did67 » 20/12/16, 12:42

This already shows whether your bed is regular. This will have some significance at planting. And avoids having too scarce areas, where the hay will be broken down too quickly, and where the weeds will take the opportunity to install ...

You must always have the "most carpeted" hay possible: the light passes less ... Especially not to overflow it. The ideal is to unroll it after compression, without airing it, without disturbing it ...

Conversely, the more airy, and some weeds overrun find their way, attracted by the light ...
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by Lachanette » 12/02/17, 20:11

Hello,
This is the first time I have spoken on this forumbut, as a reader, I've spent hours and hours there. I consume a small end the big wire, I read Sarthe and Brittany, I saw all the videos, in short I have the head full of information, which jostle sometimes. On this thread, (which I just discovered today ... it would be nice if all the topics Potager du Sloth were linked or grouped ...), the misadventure of Papyrazzi challenged me as well as the response of Did, especially when he says thatIt is only spring crops. This is something that in all my readings, I had not yet met, and that would be worth being rolled a little bit, I think ...

I present to you my vegetable garden. I have land in the Dordogne, an old meadow, which was a vegetable garden thirty years ago, then back to the meadow. For a few years now, I have been working to restore it to a vegetable garden, first with a spade (before discovering the non-tillage) plus summer mulching (given the droughts), and, this fall, inspired by reading Soltner, we brought what we had, BRF of hazelnut + fig tree (purchase of a crusher), old rotten and decomposed wood (poplar trunk dragging in the rain for 5 years which crumbled into "flour") , old straw (over 100 years old), hay of the year (from my meadow) and we formed 4 cultivation boards of 1,30m x 12m. This surface represents a large surface expansion. The spaded vegetable garden was only 3mx4m! The organic matter brought in represented a thickness of about 20 cm rather loose.

As far I am in the garden during the holidays (Easter, Ascension, July, August, November), I sheeted these culture plates coated MO, with a mulching sheet therefore passes the water, to prevent regrowth of early spring, before I arrived at Easter ...

It was from the end of November (so after the autumn work in the garden) that I discovered La Potager du Sloth, first the videos, then the forum, and I am doing a continuous training in vegetable garden without tillage ... In December, I also asked my change for the Dordogne, and if all goes well, I will be from June a full-time gardener! (I do not know if Did67 realizes the influence he has in some of life : Lol: )

In short, and I come to my two questions, I also ordered my neighbor four bio hay wheels, I thought to use the following:
1) to recharge my 4 Easter flower beds (after Debache and shot the shit-tooth)
2) to create new Easter flower beds in the remained part prairie, for even larger garden space.
3) a month later at the Ascension weekend, planting tomatoes and courgettes, aubergines and peppers peppers, potatoes, green beans, in my four beds made last fall, and perhaps in the new bands that are just covered for a month also ... (at least squash and potatoes).

So finally, my two questions:
1) recharge hay 15 April planting / sowing large seeds at 15 May, what do you think? I'll try not to get overwhelmed by the hay as Papyrazzi has been ...
2) what about the autumn garden / Winter / Spring? In the Southwest, the often dry and hot summers, autumn is a time that is propitious: kohlrabi, lettuce, onions, garlic, beans are planted this season ... Part of the garden remains busy all winter, and can not receive hay intake? Or just put the hay a bit earlier than November and then plant ...

Anyway, a big THANK YOU to Didier for complete information, availability, and kindness that (he brings his answers. I look forward to the release of the book!
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by Phraucq » 14/04/17, 20:33

Hello,

Sorry if I "land" in the wrong place but I admit to being a little lost, in the long run ...
I discovered the blog last summer and devoured the main thread then I found a farmer who could give me hay that was no longer good for the cattle because he had taken the water .
Obviously, bringing the bundles was not one of his priorities and I only had them last week.
I would then have a few questions:

1) I guess a seeding is not possible this season. But what about transplants?

2) The bales have taken water and we have mycelium of ci, from there. Is this not a problem, even with transplanting? And if so, on all types of vegetables or just some, more sensitive?

3) More general question: is a mulching as proposed here compatible with the cultivation of asparagus and rhubarb? I suppose yes, since the plants are installed, but better to ask ...

In advance, thank you for the info and thank you, especially, for the work provided for years!
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by Stef72 » 14/04/17, 21:10

I myself spread out in a generous layer of the hay of bullet at the beginning of March, and I find that if the ground already begins to work, it leaves me a big thickness of hay and the implantation of plants is too thick by place .
So if you want to plant this month, it could be a little hot without any tillage.

In your place I will put a stroke of grelinette + croc, and cover with a modest layer of hay (kind 5 cm or a little more) so that it passes the season. Then in autumn you reload generously to make it 20 cm and you will be ready without till the next spring.

This is only my modest opinion, maybe Didier would have precisions or divergences!
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by phil53 » 14/04/17, 22:20

Phraucq, I'm not of opinion of Stef 72, the hay you can spread it now by simply mowing before spreading. Last year, I started plantations at the end of March. I have not had any extraordinary results but the tomato zucchini and other large vegetable plans work. Rhubarb without problem. This year I put asparagus, they do not finish to break while the savages are already growing.
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by Did67 » 18/04/17, 09:58

I have a little zapped the last two questions ... One can not be everywhere! I click, read, tell me sincerely that I will answer and ... overcome!
So goes man and his "intentions"! Whoever has never had good intentions for the New Year throw me the first beer !!!

1) Yes, if the ideal, especially for sowing, is to put in late autumn, one can still, these days, spread and plant through. Two or three obstacles will be reconciled:

(A) the growing vegetation will be more powerful and easier to pierce; The grasses can lift the hay, then pass ... To limit this: mow as ras as possible, and cover with a thick layer and regular ...

It will be necessary to go to snatch the bulk of what exceeds!

B) the hay is dry, it will pump the rains, already rare! This will necessarily run out of crops, even if coverage limits unnecessary evaporation (you can only retain what is already in the soil!).

(C) planting will be in compact soil; It should not be formalized. Neither let themselves be dissuaded!

So the results can be a little less "optimal" ... Do not conclude too quickly!

d) no sowing possible (in any case easily). If we "open", we will fall on the grass, yellow, but still alive!

But that makes 3 or 4 years, that every year I am a little fair and that I proceed to an extension in my prairie, which melts like snow in the sun ... by a treatment in March or April!
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Re: How to start a "Lazy Potager" simpler than permaculture: steps and tips




by Did67 » 18/04/17, 11:28

Lachanette wrote:
So finally, my two questions:
1) recharge hay 15 April planting / sowing large seeds at 15 May, what do you think? I'll try not to get overwhelmed by the hay as Papyrazzi has been ...
2) what about the autumn garden / Winter / Spring? In the Southwest, the often dry and hot summers, autumn is a time that is propitious: kohlrabi, lettuce, onions, garlic, beans are planted this season ... Part of the garden remains busy all winter, and can not receive hay intake? Or just put the hay a bit earlier than November and then plant ...




1) If it is a meadow, you have to see: it would seem that the "large seeds" have enough reserve to cross (see steph72 and its peas). However, in this "tactic", I suggest you try this: cover with a good, fairly thick layer. Sow in a pocket by reducing the thickness of the hay to a few cms (and "aerate" it, also unpack it at the sowing places) ... It should work ...

In bare ground, no problems to open furrows ...

2) Everyone has their own "lazy vegetable garden", depending on their climate, soil, exposure ...

I too "embroider" around general principles. For my late summer / autumn sowing (because even with us, some cabbages remain in place - the "kale" curly; some vegetables in place: winter lettuce, leeks, ...), I put a small layer of hay before sowing, and therefore no hay in autumn ... Eventually, I reload in the spring, after the end of the winter crop ... I also have bare planks (those having sheltered the lamb's lettuce , which is going to seed, eg at the moment). They snuggle up, waiting for me to pass them over with a roll of hay!

3) With time, the pressure of weeds, if we do not stir the earth, decreases considerably! From the second year, in fact ... It is even spectacular for some weeds, which seem to "disappear" (in fact, the seeds capable of germinating, close to the surface, germinate and burst the first year, and if we does not touch the earth, there is hardly any germination in the following years ...

In short, if I enact "major general principles", it quickly becomes a joyous mess ... And it works !!!

I avoid confusing people, so I set out fairly rigid principles, which I myself do not respect. I hope that then, with the experience and knowledge, they "invent" their own lazy vegetable garden ...
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