Vegetable garden of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Did67 » 03/06/17, 08:32

nico239 wrote:
All this to say that whatever our "level" as long as we remain curious about what is different from our practice is rather positive.



Seems a bit "short" to me ...

We can eternally re-invent the wheel or the thread to cut butter ... "Discover" that a pebble thrown in the air falls ...

The difficulty in a garden, I repeat, is that even bullshit works (nature is resilient). The conventional farmer can exactly hold this reasoning: I am curious, I try this product, it works! So I continue. And I convince my neighbors to use it ... This has earned us the last 40 years of intensive farming.

It is sometimes necessary to acquire a more efficient "means of analysis", to look at the "system" more globally, from a little further and also through knowledge (analyzes of the effects of these products - which cannot be seen. "not) ... Etc ... Etc ...

I try to apprehend my vegetable garden "system" of the sloth in a rigorous way, with all the aspects, including what is happening in the ground but which is not visible. And who in fact is at the origin of what "works" (or not) ...

I have written it a number of times: I obviously respect that we do otherwise. This will not prevent me from thinking that it is a "mistake".

Last point, and then I'll leave you alone: ​​a garden is such a complex system that “good” or “bad” means absolutely nothing (in general). There is a whole graduation between "very negative effects" and "very positive effects". In the "real" life of your garden, you are always between these two limits. Closer to one. Closer to each other. Especially when, as I wrote for the cardboard, you look a little beyond your garden (and it is made).
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 03/06/17, 12:10

Yes of course it's short if you hear it in an imitative process.

I limited myself to the notion of open-mindedness, of being interested in others and their work without rejection to PRIORI, so compared to what you describe it is BEFORE the reproduction of bullshit : Lol:.

After the opinions diverge so much on the good or the bad in all areas that one wastes time trying to convince.

On the other hand bullshit or not I am interested in the experiences of others.
And if the opposite is true then it allows (at least that) to make good aperitifs : Cheesy:

And my oak leaves: whole or crushed ??? : Mrgreen:
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Ahmed » 03/06/17, 12:16

"And my oak leaves: whole or crushed ??? : Mrgreen: "
As an aperitif! : Lol:
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Julienmos » 03/06/17, 13:34

nico239 wrote:And my oak leaves: whole or crushed ??? : Mrgreen:


Hello

it seems that for "mulching" (in autumn) with leaves (oak or other), it is better that they are, if not crushed, at least shredded (mower?) because they do not fly in the wind.

(or do like Didier with whole leaves, keep them with a big net anti-birds for example)
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by olivier75 » 03/06/17, 13:38

The oak leaves ...
If you want to quickly amend or mix them up, crush them, with probably a little nitrogen hunger to the key.
If you want to protect this summer and amend this fall, make sure it does not fly too much.
Olivier.
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 03/06/17, 14:17

Ok ac thank you .... as we have a big pile we say that it's stupid to deprive
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 03/06/17, 14:19

Another question I heard you say that you cut your salads above the foot and that you let it grow back that is it?

If so, we can repeat how many times this formula which seems to me very economic :!:
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by gek » 03/06/17, 14:34

Did67 wrote:

I am not between "Monsanto" and "Pascal Poot-Bourguignon-Morrison" (it is a mistake to put Bourguignon with the other two! I do not always agree 100% with him, but all the same, he has a remarkable knowledge of soil biology).



I find that the 3 are very different:

Morrison speaks very little of agronomy in his book permaculture. He just says that you can do it all the way down to the ground, he gets very little into the details but just gives some examples of ways to cover the ground. The rest of the book is more about various arrangements, philosophy, choices of perennial varieties. There is no dogma in his book, even covering the ground can be questioned at home.
From my point of view it is quite close to a lazy gardener without the theoretical knowledge part.

Many of those who claim permaculture on youtube are extremely peremptory and give recipes ready to work everywhere and all the time while showing a profound misunderstanding of the functioning of a soil (Poot, Koppel, Forrer, permaterre ... )
There is often a lot of conspiracy in their remarks.

Bourguignon is on that it is another level but he made it a real business.
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Did67 » 03/06/17, 18:45

I am 97,5% agree. But I have not read Mollison [it's Bill Mollison, the designer of permaculture] in the text. He is an ecologist [in the sense of the branch of biology who studies the relationship between living beings and their environment], not an agronomist. It is therefore logical that he has a singular vision.

My epidermal reaction "against" the "permaculturalists", in fact only concerns the French "permaculture schools", or more or less "West-European", which spread more or less the same dogma in terms of design, mounds, spirals, keyholes, buried wood ...

And indeed, at Bourguignon, it is the business that questions me, which undoubtedly leads him to do "mini-services" in 15 minutes, where it is difficult not to deal with some very narrowed, narrowed truths. to the point of sometimes bordering on the untruth. And I claim that although the nose in the microbiology of the soil, it does not evoke (to my knowledge, what I read, what I saw) the problematic of "energy", of the trophic chains which are a flow of energy. Which seems to me the key to everything.
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Re: Laziness of the (super) lazy in the 04 (800m)




by Did67 » 03/06/17, 18:50

nico239 wrote:Another question I heard you say that you cut your salads above the foot and that you let it grow back that is it?

If so, we can repeat how many times this formula which seems to me very economic :!:


Yes. I cut above the last leaves which are in contact with the ground and damaged (so that one does not eat). Thus, the axillary buds (located in the axils of these leaves) develop in a few days.

On the "not to cut" varieties (Wonder of the 4 seasons, Grenoble red that I have there), it does not give much because it goes to seed quickly. We could harvest a sort of "mesclun" (small shoots).

There, I leave for the "biodiversity" ("the share of the angels") and the rhizodepositions: as long as I do not need the place, these regrow make photosynthesis and nourish my soil organisms ... Then, on stable varieties, I do my seed harvest, after that feeds a few foragers. Some of the seeds fall to the ground and I have spontaneous regrowth next year ...

In short, unlike salads to cut (Red Salad Bowl, etc.), it is not a "profitable" way to produce !!!
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