Vegetable garden of the lazy in Haute-Saône

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
sicetaitsimple
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by sicetaitsimple » 21/07/17, 22:19

chatelot16 wrote:
How to value used oil oils? The waste dumps do not value anything because they do not pay anything! The waste dumps spend public money to work ... the less you use it less costs the community ... when waste dumps will be efficient enough to value it will have to let it know with a positive price of materials Valuable, and they will be provided with much more

for the one who warms himself with the wood the valorization of the oil is obvious: it burns ... it is complicated to make an oil burner only, and even useless because it is very rare to have a quantity of oil sufficient for use it alone ... it is easier to pour a little oil on the wood each time you load a wood burner

It does not work only for oil, it works also for mineral oil ... oil drain ... it also works for plastic burning cleanly: straw bale twine and silage tarpaulin


Yes, in a wood-burning stove, almost everything can burn if there is a certain amount of carbon and / or hydrogen. Any plastic, any biomass if it has time to dry, oils and greases, treated wood, your old shredded tires, your mother-in-law in small pieces eventually .... and I forget .

In industrial mode, it is called a garbage incinerator, and it is now equipped with smoke treatments rather efficient ...

I'm not sure if your stove is equipped with it ....

PS: to put it into perspective, I mostly heat myself with wood in my house in WE, I am neither particularly proud of it nor especially traumatized by my impacts which are nevertheless obvious in terms of fine particle emissions ... a recent stove which I think is "less worse" than any open system.
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phil53
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by phil53 » 21/07/17, 23:31

sicetaitsimple wrote:
chatelot16 wrote:
How to value used oil oils? The waste dumps do not value anything because they do not pay anything! The waste dumps spend public money to work ... the less you use it less costs the community ... when waste dumps will be efficient enough to value it will have to let it know with a positive price of materials Valuable, and they will be provided with much more

for the one who warms himself with the wood the valorization of the oil is obvious: it burns ... it is complicated to make an oil burner only, and even useless because it is very rare to have a quantity of oil sufficient for use it alone ... it is easier to pour a little oil on the wood each time you load a wood burner

It does not work only for oil, it works also for mineral oil ... oil drain ... it also works for plastic burning cleanly: straw bale twine and silage tarpaulin


Yes, in a wood-burning stove, almost everything can burn if there is a certain amount of carbon and / or hydrogen. Any plastic, any biomass if it has time to dry, oils and greases, treated wood, your old shredded tires, your mother-in-law in small pieces eventually .... and I forget .

In industrial mode, it is called a garbage incinerator, and it is now equipped with smoke treatments rather efficient ...

I'm not sure if your stove is equipped with it ....



I agree with this remark and it is not because it burns that combustion is optimum. Going to put plastic in a wood stove is almost as criminal as those who burn tires and other junk at each event. At the level emitted particles must be of the same level.
What about the ashes?
Are there any additives and unburnt hydrocarbon residues left in the water?
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chatelot16
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by chatelot16 » 22/07/17, 09:47

I am not talking about burning tires or pvc where clean combustion is impossible in a single home, and would be lamentably polluting

I am talking only about good combustible plastics such as polyethylene and polypropylene: nobody will find anything more polluting than wood alone

polyethylene and polypropylene are clean fuel!
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olivier75
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by olivier75 » 22/07/17, 12:40

Phil53,
You can not say that, let alone write it, without expecting some reactions on this forum.
The simple fact of confining a fire is enough to improve its combustion, as with a garden incinerator. In addition, modern double and even triple combustion stoves and boilers, with passive or active optimizations of the burning temperatures, increase efficiency and reduce pollution to fine particles, regardless of the fuel.
Obviously it is necessary to learn a minimum and know the plastics, pvc and other chlorinated derivatives do not have the same impact as the polyethylene of the packaging films.
Olivier.
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chatelot16
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by chatelot16 » 22/07/17, 18:39

phil53 wrote:I agree with this remark and it is not because it burns that combustion is optimum. Going to put plastic in a wood stove is almost as criminal as those who burn tires and other junk at each event. At the level emitted particles must be of the same level.
What about the ashes?
Are there any additives and unburnt hydrocarbon residues left in the water?

what is criminal is disinformation!

putting all the plastic in the same bag is depriving itself of the use of polyethylene and polypropylene as fuel, and spending public money for its elimination

chemically I am formal there is no toxic residue neither in the smoke nor in the ashes ... there is only micro particle more or less abundant according to the conditions of combustion

if you burn a big pile of polyethylene tarpaulin it melts and makes a belly of liquid that burns as badly as a tank of oil, with big black smoke: but it is not a fault of this plastic: it's just a consequence of the lack of air and the abundance of fuel

if the polyethylene cover is mixed in small pieces with wood, it burns perfectly and it is only a way to save wood to make the same heat
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phil53
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by phil53 » 22/07/17, 18:56

Already that the common mortal does not even manage to sort its waste properly, I do not imagine how it will make to make the difference between such and such plastic.
In addition to having good combustion it is a matter of proportion. A little too much and the pool of molten plastic drips into the ashes.
I understand that it is possible for a passionate but not applicable without experience for a lambda person like me.
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olivier75
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by olivier75 » 22/07/17, 19:11

Phil53,
Yes it is true, but one learns (almost) every day, at least for the one who wants it.
For a part it's just written on it.
Olivier
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Ahmed
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by Ahmed » 22/07/17, 20:54

The combustion of test specimens (small plastic strips) is a fairly reliable indicator of the nature of the material, when the plastics are not stamped or the nature of which is known by the use (exhaust pipe in PVC). Flame color, material behavior, and type of combustion provide information on large categories of plastics.

Plastic material: Fire behavior; Odor characteristics

POM: Bluish Flame | hot drip; Odor of formaldehyde
PET: Shiny Flame | crackling | producing soot | drip; Sweet smell | acre
PA: blue flame with yellow edge | bubble formation | crepit | drops; Smell of burnt horn
PVDF: Shiny Flame | strong soot formation; Penetrating odor
PE-HD: Clear flame with blue core | dripping | smoke almost invisible; Odor of paraffin
PP: Clear flame with blue core | dripping | smoke almost invisible; Odor of paraffin
PC: Yellow flame | soot formation; Odor of phenol
ABS: Yellow Flame | strong soot formation; Smell of lighting gas
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by ilguimat » 24/07/17, 16:37

Ahmed wrote:The combustion of test specimens (small plastic strips) is a fairly reliable indicator of the nature of the material, when the plastics are not stamped or the nature of which is known by the use (exhaust pipe in PVC). Flame color, material behavior, and type of combustion provide information on large categories of plastics.

Plastic material: Fire behavior; Odor characteristics

POM: Bluish Flame | hot drip; Odor of formaldehyde
PET: Shiny Flame | crackling | producing soot | drip; Sweet smell | acre
PA: blue flame with yellow edge | bubble formation | crepit | drops; Smell of burnt horn
PVDF: Shiny Flame | strong soot formation; Penetrating odor
PE-HD: Clear flame with blue core | dripping | smoke almost invisible; Odor of paraffin
PP: Clear flame with blue core | dripping | smoke almost invisible; Odor of paraffin
PC: Yellow flame | soot formation; Odor of phenol
ABS: Yellow Flame | strong soot formation; Smell of lighting gas


:D Here is a lesson on plastic!
And a gardener is never immune to needing the lights of a plastic artist! I think I have a big crack in my HDPE tank (which is actually a trash can of 1000 L hijacked) - apparently nothing sticks (glue, putty, silicones, drool of toad ...) . It seems that the unique solution is to heat HDPE sticks with a special gun. Question: Would a conventional glue gun suffice?
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ilguimat
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Re: Lazy vegetable garden in Haute-Saône




by ilguimat » 24/07/17, 16:43

chatelot16 wrote:
phil53 wrote:I agree with this remark and it is not because it burns that combustion is optimum. Going to put plastic in a wood stove is almost as criminal as those who burn tires and other junk at each event. At the level emitted particles must be of the same level.
What about the ashes?
Are there any additives and unburnt hydrocarbon residues left in the water?

what is criminal is disinformation!

putting all the plastic in the same bag is depriving itself of the use of polyethylene and polypropylene as fuel, and spending public money for its elimination

chemically I am formal there is no toxic residue neither in the smoke nor in the ashes ... there is only micro particle more or less abundant according to the conditions of combustion

if you burn a big pile of polyethylene tarpaulin it melts and makes a belly of liquid that burns as badly as a tank of oil, with big black smoke: but it is not a fault of this plastic: it's just a consequence of the lack of air and the abundance of fuel

if the polyethylene cover is mixed in small pieces with wood, it burns perfectly and it is only a way to save wood to make the same heat

: Oops: Well, I feel like a little player, with my kebab oil.
It will be imperative that I do tests this winter with pieces of plastic. Obviously, I never burn the oil alone, but I form "loaves" with sawdust and rolled up very tightly in newspaper. All burning with wood. Well it all heats up tremendously and the flame lasts longer than an American oak log!
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