Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by phil12 » 22/02/18, 10:07

Did67 wrote:
Thouvenel wrote:

= overload of materials poor (crushed wood, straw), install legumes (clover, alfalfa, field beans). In this soil then suffering seriously from "nitrogen hunger", they will fix a maximum of N in the air. .


Bonjour,

Always clover, alfalfa, faba bean, no one puts in personal beans it will be a maximum of beans> they can be eaten they> can be preserved :D
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by Did67 » 22/02/18, 10:25

Yes, the beans too.

I was more in the spirit of "green manure based on legumes", so we use plants whose seeds are not too expensive, in dense sowing, and which primarily produce biomass.

But you're absolutely right, we can "mix" and enrich AND produce.

You can also put lupine, if you want to make "beautiful" ...

Note that beans and lupines near the vegetable garden have another advantage: they are attractive "martyr plants" for aphids. It will therefore also be a "breeding" of anti-aphid auxiliaries (ladybirds, hoverflies ...).
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by Thouvenel » 22/02/18, 15:19

Did67 wrote:
Thouvenel wrote:
A nuance, that "worked" on some cultures. !


The image of the fridge is not good!

We must rather imagine a "cistern" and the slopes which "siphon" from the top. The lower the level, the more difficult they have to siphon ...

So clay = huge tank. Sand = small bottle. A few liters: in the clay soil, it is not enough for the plants to siphon. In the sand, it overflows (will be leached).

[Here, I must keep it if I write my agronomy treaty]

Added to this is that some plants are much greedy than others.

And there is also the fact that for historical reasons (contributions) or "geological" (bedrock), your soil can be rich in one element and poor in another. And such and such a species may be sensitive to this element (eg potash), such other not.


Absolutely ! Interesting!
It is a complex thing for our brain to go back and forth between complexity (which we probably never identify and will never completely identify) and the schematization, the images we have in our minds (necessary for our small brain).

The results of analysis of your neighbor farmers would be very useful! Especially if he had data on an area he had not fertilized too much (a natural meadow - a new plot?). You could imagine that at home, it's not so different then ...

While knowing that we would not follow at all the "recommendations" made by a "conventional" laboratory, which reasons within a framework "cultures under infusions"

I will ask him. To be continued...

On the possible residues due to horticultural greenhouses prior to my garden? A need for analysis? Which ones?
I hesitate, prices seem high.
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by Diabolorent » 01/03/18, 11:45

Thouvenel wrote:I hesitate, prices seem high.


When you say high, do you have a price order? I would also be interested to know the nature of my soil: I have a lot of fields around me and I would like to know if the impact of these crops on my land is important or rather insignificant.

It would allow me to know what "natural cover" to bring around my vegetable garden.
In this respect, if I may allow myself, I will have 2 questions:
1. Where do you find the seeds of these cover plants, green manures and other martyrs plants such as chickweed, white clover, lupine, white mustard etc ...
2. Where do you buy your BRF? I found only on the internet and in huge quantities : Shock:
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by Thouvenel » 01/03/18, 22:28

Diabolorent wrote:
Thouvenel wrote:I hesitate, prices seem high.


When you say high, do you have a price order? I would also be interested to know the nature of my soil: I have a lot of fields around me and I would like to know if the impact of these crops on my land is important or rather insignificant.

It would allow me to know what "natural cover" to bring around my vegetable garden.
In this respect, if I may allow myself, I will have 2 questions:
1. Where do you find the seeds of these cover plants, green manures and other martyrs plants such as chickweed, white clover, lupine, white mustard etc ...
2. Where do you buy your BRF? I found only on the internet and in huge quantities : Shock:


I do not remember the prices, but it's over 100 euros for a complete analysis of pollutants.
Mouron, I've never seen seeds.
For the other green manure many seed sellers have put themselves there, including in supermarkets, garden centers ...
The choice is greater among seed sellers on the web. The Germans offer mixtures (see at Baumaux).
I often go to Green Range. A dozen green manures are proposed. Ask the agri, I had a big package of faba bean seeds. They use in large-scale rapeseed, camelina, alfalfa, peas foraging, radish forage, wheat, rye, triticale, sorghum, sunflower, ...)

You can get free grind from landscapers. The BRF must be done, otherwise it costs expensive.
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by Diabolorent » 02/03/18, 08:16

Thank you for these responses : Wink:

Yes I read that hazel wood and oak was good for making BRF, I have around the house, but I have no grinder :?
I must struggle to find a solution ...
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by olivier75 » 02/03/18, 08:22

Hello,
For green manure, there are also beekeeping suppliers, who sell rather large packets of honey plants to double the price.
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by Did67 » 02/03/18, 10:18

Thouvenel wrote:
On the possible residues due to horticultural greenhouses prior to my garden? A need for analysis? Which ones?
I hesitate, prices seem high.


In the "horticultural" residues, there is potentially:

a) fertilizers - sometimes with heavy metals (some fertilizers are rich; but there are limit values): anyway, nothing to do; anyway, it remains in "bearable" values ​​(at worst!)

(b) pesticide residues; in general, they are organic molecules, which decompose slowly but decompose; kidney to do with copper sulphate, which remains!

Precise analyzes would require "cutting-edge" research for all possible products (we only find what we are looking for!): It would be overpriced!

So it's better to console yourself:

a) theoretically, we remain within limit values; vegetables grown under these conditions are those found in stores; including possibly under the label "organic" (in vegetables, after a year of conversion, a product is labeled; the earth is supposed to have recovered).

(b) most of the potential pollutants, nature slowly regains its rights; and the more your soil will be alive, the more these residues will be dismantled ... or "deactivated" or "captured" in complex organic molecules, which make them less operative ...

I think it is worth places not to be more rigorous than the Ayatollahs and Khmer Verde combined: the bulk of the pesticides that we "consume" without the knowledge of our own free will are the residues of the treatments directly supported by the crops. Even if in some very specific situations, we can have soil pollution: old industrial sites, landfills, along roads (with lead residues released for 30 years by cars; lead, like copper, does not "migrate "not and is therefore still there).
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by Thouvenel » 02/03/18, 18:46

It reassures me even though I wasn't particularly worried. Of course, I would prefer a "" "clean" "" "kind of old natural meadow.

The horticultural activity (apparently thoughts made on long tables in a greenhouse) ended in about 2006.
I always thought that over time, molecules would be "digested".

I will still ask the former operator, even if it is a little tricky!
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Re: Potager lazy in the Lot-et-Garonne - clay soil, life to restore-




by Did67 » 02/03/18, 21:34

The thoughts, except perhaps a fungicide after transplanting, I do not think they have been treated much. Perhaps even a treatment of the culture medium to steam ???? AND the rest (infusion of nutritive solutions) since the time, there is prescription !!!!

In my opinion, you can rest easy. And on two ears.
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