Pedal agricultural machinery

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
marcel
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by marcel » 24/11/14, 19:14

chatelot16 wrote:I do not praise the merits of draft animals: the energy performance of a good tractor is better than an animal: the tractor only consumes when it is used, the animal must eat every day even when it is not used

Yes, but the tractor is much harder to eat! : Shock:
Digging ruins it. You don't have to do it often. The back takes a hit.
Pedaling is much more comfortable.
But plowing is still not easy with that. Putting two types in pedaling could improve a little.
In a mower, it should pass without problem ... and cause less back pain than the roller which also has the defect of slipping due to lack of wheel grip because there is not enough weight above it !!!

For Ahmed, don't mess around: resistance to moving forward at three km / h !!! It makes you laugh ... especially with very hard wheels. No more boring than planting your feet on the ground without skidding to pull something from your belt.
Me what annoys me the most are the wheels presented precisely, they are not too minimalist in this rustic system: tires of this type cost an arm, which would be more useful to dig up according to some ... :P
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by chatelot16 » 24/11/14, 21:57

you can eat cows, beef or horses when they are no longer used ... tractors are harder to cook ... and above all they do not reproduce

it makes me think of someone who had several 2cv in his garden, there was never a small one: normal there was a soft top!
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by Cuicui » 24/11/14, 23:02

chatelot16 wrote:I know some former farmers in France who used cows as draft animals
When I was a kid, our 2 neighbors gathered their cow under the yoke to take in the hay or take the manure or the ton of slurry to the field or to the meadow. They were better off than us, who only had 2 goats and used the handcart.
The cows worked occasionally. There was no need for specific draft animals. They gave milk every day, one calf per year, and, when old, went to the slaughterhouse.
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by Cuicui » 25/11/14, 12:15

Cuicui wrote:
chatelot16 wrote:I know some former farmers in France who used cows as draft animals
When I was a kid, our 2 neighbors gathered their cow under the yoke to take in the hay or take the manure or the ton of slurry to the field or to the meadow. They were better off than us, who only had 2 goats and used the handcart.
The cows worked occasionally. There was no need for specific draft animals. They gave milk every day, one calf per year, and, when old, went to the slaughterhouse.
Of course, it was not enough to live but it helped well. The workers who could, after their day of work in the factory, cultivated a piece of land and had an animal in the stable.
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by Did67 » 25/11/14, 14:16

Sorry, I no longer know what, here, is humor, delirium or pure stupidity!

Those who are still serious, I just invite them to think for a few seconds about what is an "appropriate" technology, in a given system.

1) I have cultivated with cows. For the small European farmer, after the war, 3 or 4 ha to feed the family and sell a little milk (to have an income, therefore to buy what was not self-produced), an "ox" would certainly have been more powerful ( but what would this power have been used for, since there was no surface!), but its consumption would have "weighed down" too much the energy balance of the operation. Clearly, he would have eaten too much, not leaving enough to produce milk, feed the family ...

So the little farmer - as we used to say - worked with cows.

The medium or large, worked with oxen or horses, more powerful ...

2) I have experimented with "hoeing wheels" in northern Namibia. In addition to light cultivators (this time it is the device), with donkey traction. In sandy soils, in a place where the majority of families had a donkey to move ...

The machines, after making people laugh, challenged some women ... [in this part of the globe, because of the exodus of men, it was women who did most of the work in the fields].

The primary obstacle is not the one you think of: it is to have millet (and other plants) sown online. It is also the difficulty of making associated crops (in particular legumes - local beans - between millet plants). Traditionally, hoeing allows cultivators to leave behind certain useful "weeds", including amaranths, close to chenopods, which are plants with a fabulous water extraction capacity, and which serve as spinach, at the exit. of a long dry season where every green vegetable had ended up missing - and the deficiencies that go with it!]

Far from slavery, it was progress for her compared to the traditional hoe ... And indeed, we harnessed humans ... It was rather a frank laugh ... [I stuck to it also, to set an example - and know what I'm talking about]

The same work, done faster, in an upright position, was a reduction in slavery ...

[I use the term "slavery" voluntarily, because it was pronounced above; it is obviously out of my mind here, let me clarify: is all hard work a form of slavery ??? There are then some 2 billion slaves ...]

I stop here. I do not know if that interests. I reacted because foolish mockery bothered me. It was probably humor, but I'm not sure, at least it's not obvious. And the lack of depth of reflection dismayed me. Both in relation to our direct ancestors, without whom we would not be there, and in relation to larger populations than us who still live in modesty!

The tractor is deadlocked because ... fossil fuel !!!
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by chatelot16 » 25/11/14, 15:03

Did67 wrote:
The primary obstacle is not the one you think of: it is to have millet (and other plants) sown online. It is also the difficulty of making associated crops (in particular legumes - local beans - between millet plants). Traditionally, hoeing allows cultivators to leave behind certain useful "weeds", including amaranths, close to chenopods, which are plants with a fabulous water extraction capacity, and which serve as spinach, at the exit. of a long dry season where every green vegetable had ended up missing - and the deficiencies that go with it!]


this is the advantage of a manual tool: we see exactly what we do, unlike a stupid mechanical tool that destroys what comes out of the rank

another case where we could compare a simple solution and a mechanical solution: mowing: is it more efficient to mow with a scythe, or pedal on a pedal mower? for me the simple scythe is better provided you know how to use it
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by marcel » 25/11/14, 18:10

Me, if I said nonsense, it was not to make fun of me. No, I think it is very useful to develop concepts of lower energy expenditure.
I told myself that to use pedaling properly, you had to optimize biomechanical efficiency, namely to properly position the pedaler or pedalers. The recumbent bike position with lumbar support is more efficient and more comfortable. that used on the proto presented, seems to me less well.

For the catch, I found this image which seems relevant to me, namely a winch system which allows both to skid and to aim correctly. an idea to dig maybe ... (I don't know if I still have the right to joke ???)
http://krisdedecker.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099229e88833014e888c34ca970d-pi

There they are two and the tool is not held by the pedal. But one can imagine doing it alone in the other direction. Plant a stake and hang the rope on it to make it go up, the tool then being on the rolling vehicle.

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by Did67 » 25/11/14, 18:49

No, be reassured ...

I should not have written "hot" ...

The reaction of Flytox, even with a smiley signaling that it was meant to be humor, following Ahmed's idea of ​​harnessing people, struck me.

Because that's exactly what I did in Namibia, very seriously, in 40 ° in the shade, with the feeling of helping the poorest, those who didn't even have a donkey. And it is a fact that their children did not go to school ...

I'm just going to develop a little more:

- I had found (and imported) English hoeing hoes (light frame, aluminum) ...

It looked like this:
http://image1.trefle.com/images/outilla ... 583533.jpg

- with the idea of ​​testing and if this was accepted by the populations and perceived as progress, to have them manufactured by blacksmiths / welders on site with the means at hand [the import was to go faster in the tests]

- even in sandy soils, this wheel, designed for market gardening in Europe, was too "hard" to push for a long time, in an uncomfortable position (in which you have to bend forward) and very quickly it is spontaneously that the women harnessed their colleagues or their children ...

That's it for the little story.

I was responsible for a "research-action" program to develop methods improving production systems, adapted to the reality of the environment (environment, soils, climate, beliefs, knowledge ....), in a spirit of "durability (bein different from the parachuting of what are called the" pink elephants "(kind of parachuting of tractors, for which everything is missing: parts, skills to maintain them and income to run them) ...

But continue your exchanges. I repeat: I should not have written "hot" ... It escaped me.
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by Ahmed » 25/11/14, 19:15

From a methodological point of view, what strikes me is that we start from a motor vehicle to derive a manual tool, while to go from manual mode to motor mode, we had to completely review the design ...
There is a backward approach which superbly ignores all logic, but I understand that it is difficult to get rid of certain cultural automatisms.

The basic facts are as follows: human unit power is low and the wheel is not the most efficient way of transmitting it; the rotary motor is in phase with the wheel system from the start, especially as its power allows it to overcome the lower efficiency of this drive system ...

Warning! I do not necessarily condemn the support or guide wheels, my criticism only concerns the transmission aspect of the drive.
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by chatelot16 » 25/11/14, 20:11

the wheel is a brilliant invention when the goal is to roll! the good example is the bike ... we tire less to do a bike distance than on foot

but for hoeing, mowing, or other agricultural work you have to take a closer look

is working the soil with only a translational movement the right solution?

in my opinion when you only have your own human power it is better to use the most intelligent means ... when you have draft animals you may prefer to use the animal's traction power ... by calculating when even if there is profit because an animal badly used is likely to cost more expensive than it brings back ... in France at the time of the animals of draft the country was already rather rich and the calculation was not the same that certain place in africa

the tractor and the mechanics is not necessarily the worst solution ... but beware you must avoid the model too expensive unnecessarily too powerful too complicated to maintain, the old model was more reasonable except that it is no longer available in material recent ... it is better to see with the Chinese material much better adapted to the need

so it's not worth bothering the chinese are taking care of it

and in a few years when we have finished ruining ourselves with too complicated equipment that our industry will no longer manufacture what we need we will buy small Chinese equipment like the africans
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