A vegetable meadow?

[to be chafoin]

Set up in the fall, which seems to me the most favorable period.

you grow green manure it's good, so put the hay later after mowing the green manure around February, March,

The fact remains that putting it on immediately poses problems. Beginning in the same year of decomposition, with two consequences: "disappearance" of hay which will be lacking and beginning of mineralization which can go as far as nitrification. Suddenly, our "natural" garden can become "polluting": a shame!

Apparently your opinions diverge. Question silly: why not put the hay 2 or 3 weeks only before starting a crop? Like the mowing of a green manure that is cut in the spring shortly before the crop ... Some green manures are moreover a little like mini meadows (grasses). The only difference would be, in the case of hay, to have dried the plant before covering its soil with ...?

[olivier75]

To be chafoin,
Hello,
Since last spring I put the lazy garden, gradually, and I put the hay on all year.
For me, and with little hindsight there is no bad time to put the hay.
I was able to plant in hay that had spent the winter, plant and lay the hay on top, (the less well), lay the hay and plant in it immediately, plant or sow and add the hay as I went along, etc. . If Every moment has its advantages and disadvantages, I think the question is not "when to put the hay" but "when not to put the hay".
To plant, there is no bad time, it is just necessary that the water reserve of your soil is good, even to water before laying, and hope for beautiful storms to fill the hay too.
To sow, if the hay to a few weeks, it allows to remove the remains of weeds more easily (the roots).
To be really lazy, you must necessarily unroll the boot before planting, the recovery as I do requires some effort, largely compensated, but still.
The best and the enemy of good! And above all, mixing techniques I realize how much more hay, more is easy. My best-covered vegetable garden requires almost no maintenance between setting up and harvesting, as for watering.
Olivier.

[to be chafoin]

To be chafoin,
Hello,

It's true that said like that it's a little weird! I just wanted and connaitre chafoin but I am gouré in the email address so after the nickname was already taken, and as I had no inspiration in the bullshit, I had to add something and it became ! But finally it's funny too ..
Yes thank you for these feedback. I see that my hay is melting quite quickly. I think I'll get some more, there's plenty of stud in the area ... it's expensive (in small quantities)?

[Did67]

The matter is not the same.

I think that wood, with its richness in fibers which are at the origin of "humic substances", explains the difference in structure ("lumpy") ... But despite its good structure, and despite its color, it is not certain that it is rich in mineral elements [when I speak of mineral elements in the sense of nutrients for the plant, these are ions in the soil solution - which are not seen any more that salt is not seen in water!]. many commercial potting soil is the product of composting wood waste from our waste reception centers ...

[to be chafoin]

The matter is not the same.

I think that wood, with its richness in fibers which are at the origin of "humic substances", explains the difference in structure ("lumpy") ... But despite its good structure, and despite its color, it is not certain that it is rich in mineral elements [when I speak of mineral elements in the sense of nutrients for the plant, these are ions in the soil solution - which are not seen any more that salt is not seen in water!]. many commercial potting soil is the product of composting wood waste from our waste reception centers ...

Mh mh ... ok but humic substances do have a visible material existence, what is it? I still have trouble visualizing what we talk about when we talk about humus ...
On the other hand, there is still in this earth resulting from the aerobic decomposition, the results of the primary mineralization carried out by the bacteria, therefore minerals directly assimilated by the plants (even if perhaps we do not see them).

[to be chafoin]

I said it is a mixed pile: woody and leaves or green plants (I can not say the proportion).

[to be chafoin]

By the way, what is it then that these white dots? We can also see it in the seedbed ...

[Did67]

Mh mh ... ok but humic substances do have a visible material existence, what is it? I still have trouble visualizing what we talk about when we talk about humus ...
On the other hand, there is still in this earth resulting from the aerobic decomposition, the results of the primary mineralization carried out by the bacteria, therefore minerals directly assimilated by the plants (even if perhaps we do not see them).

It's not simple. I explain in my book that the word "humus" has always had two completely different meanings. So already that the internet is making bouillabaisses with what is clear, you can imagine when it is not clear!

- pedologists (scientists who study soils, soil formation and evolution) call "humus" the superficial horizon (the layer) of unworked soil, made up essentially of more or less decomposed plant debris, organisms that break them down ...

- agronomists call humus (and I prefer to say "humic substances" precisely to avoid confusion) constituents of the soil; they are natural polymers, that is to say very large molecules, made by assemblies of phenols and other organic molecules; they give the brown / brown / black color to soils and above all, they give lots of interesting properties; they are "colloids", that is to say molecules having adsorbent properties; they combine with clays, a colloid of mineral origin, to form a clay-humic complex; they retain water; they retain nutrients; they sustain life ...

There is only a few% of humic substances in a soil (2 to 4%, counted in dry matter).

There are different types, with different colors and properties, different solubilities: fulvic acid, brown humic acid, gray humic acid, humic ...

Well I wrote 20 pages on it, I will not take them back!

[Did67]

By the way, what is it then that these white dots? We can also see it in the seedbed ...

In the seedbed of the trade, it is usually sand, added to lighten it ...

[to be chafoin]

Thank you I read it, but I did not see very well how it was visualized the humic substances ... now it is a little clearer: there is a notion of color. My 2 lands are black, so they must contain a reasonable percentage ...
Sand! And how come I find some under my "compost" heap?