Long live palm oil!

[Grelinette]

I maintain the expression "impotence of the political", insofar as there is absence of vision other than that employed to the conservation of an outdated model, a "presentism" which condemns any future; whether this is due, in whole or in part, to social, cultural or professional determinism, I readily admit.

You mean by that that the "political state of mind" of the moment is akin to a kind of "whatever decisions and actions, even if after me the flood, as long as I find my personal interest now And now" ?...

Already 30 or 40 years ago, we already complained of a growing and deleterious social individualism for the social cement of our societies; politicians (such as industry, finance and others) would have appropriated this behavior, thereby securing a privileged position.

[Obamot]

Indeed, if palm oil is not fundamentally bad, it is very popular with the food industry where it undergoes transformations which accentuate the share of saturated fatty acids. (by hydrogenation); the goal being to obtain a solid fatty substance at room temperature and which is more resistant to rancidity than liquid oil, perfect for the multiple industrial pastries and other ready meals that make the heyday of arterial heart disease, diabetes and depression...

Hydrogenation requires the use of heavy metals such as lead acetate, selenium, copper or zinc chromite, etc. (catalysts used at very high temperatures, which in the process destroy all that could have been of interest nutritional, to transform everything into a toxic product => polyunsaturated fats into saturated fats similar to "bad cholesterol" but worse) which are found in small quantities but are poisons / disruptors: even in low residues. They also bear this name "Catalyst poison" >>> Furthermore the TRANS fatty acids that result from handling are extremely bad, since they will ask the body for as many CIS fatty acids to be eliminated and this will further disrupt the functioning of the body via prostaglandins. PGE1 VS PGE2, upsetting the balance ...

In short, worse there is perhaps the addiction to white sugar and diabetes indeed ... It is in any case a product convenient for the industry, because manufacturing process at very low cost made stable, but they made it a dead product, real filth in food!

[Janic]

obamot hello
Totally agree!
Apart from the problem of deforestation for this industrial culture, it is the problem of industrial degradation of the initial product to make it a dead product, therefore with its deleterious effects (regardless of saturated fat) harmful to health. However, industrial oils, which the majority of populations consume, undergo similar processes making them just as harmful.
We may just be surprised, again, that despite all that we are capable of inflicting on ourselves, humanity still survives.

[Ahmed]

Obamot, you said everything on the question!
I come back to the issue of deforestation: our CIRAD "expert", mentioned above, basically claims that deforestation is the result of logging and that oil palm cultivation only occurs. 'after, without being the cause ... except that in these qualified forests, a little quickly primary (because often modified gently for millennia by those who live / lived in them), the density of trees sought by the Industry is weak and if many trees are massacred to gain access only to the targeted species, this would never lead to a methodical work of complete clearing, if it did not exist this prospect of particularly lucrative culture.

[Ahmed]

@ Grelinette: of course, there is this short-term aspect that you note, but this is only the most visible part of the phenomenon. Political politics has its rules and Holland knows that he will not be re-elected, that it is the turn to one of his equivalents (but in a so-called other camp), before his, perhaps, comes back ...

The real problem lies elsewhere: the inability, through training determinisms, to design a future. This incapacity is also the result of the role assigned to politicians: provided an interface between the real powers, which are economic, and those by whom they were elected, so as to preserve the interests of the former, while maintaining the democratic illusion with seconds.

This situation of imaginary deficit is fairly new, even if the future futures (if I may say!) Were of variable quality, it should be noted that there is no longer any vision of the future, if we are to exclude the substitute which consists of an extension of the present, with a little less unemployment, a little more growth, which is only a wishful thinking in which nobody believes, not even those who chant it at length of speech.
A real future would be an ideal strong enough to mobilize enough people to positively turn things around, but, no doubt, it is too late, the process in which we are stuck is going on inexorably and it seems, in beyond our control.

[Gaston]

Hydrogenation requires the use of heavy metals such as lead acetate, selenium, copper or zinc chromite, etc. (catalysts used at very high temperatures, which in the process destroy all that could have been of interest nutritional, to transform everything into a toxic product => polyunsaturated fats into saturated fats similar to "bad cholesterol" but worse) which are found in small quantities but are poisons / disruptors: even in low residues. They also bear this name "Catalyst poison" >>>

Far from me the idea of ​​defending hydrogenation, but it seems to me all the same that there is a misunderstanding in your sentence: a "catalyst poison" is a substance which poisons ... the catalyst , making it less effective or even totally ineffective.
It seems to me that what you wish to denounce, it would rather be the traces of catalyst that can be found in the final product

[Obamot]

Note that I am not looking for the little beast, but it seems that we are both right

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which blocks its action partially or totally. Such substances can be responsible for the failure of catalytic hydrogenation, but can also be used to make the catalyst less reactive and more selective

Anyway I noticed the word "poison" associated with heavy metals.
Who could even say otherwise. The more so as a saturated fat can in no case allow the achievement of the impermeability of the cell membrane, which means that suddenly, the organism no longer being protected, the poisons are found in the inside some of our cells once the metabolic barrier is crossed (with regard to the wall of the intestine, it is only one cell thick ...) ... And that's very serious, but new "trends"would rather be looking for the little beast by insisting on"the genetic origin of all diseasesInstead of looking for lice in the straw, the researchers don't dwell on the resulting immune system collapse that is right there right in front of their eyes (although it is useful to s 'question genetically.)

[Ahmed]

I would like to be clear: governments are there to streamline economic exchanges and allow them to function. In this context, ecology is only an appendix intended to calm the concerns of citizens, but obviously and whatever the propaganda claims, a real desire for ecological improvement would be completely at odds with this unique goal which is l 'economy.
I may be objected to the great lyrical and not disinterested flights on "green business", which see in ecology a way out of the crisis and relaunch growth ... Nothing but the statement of these objectives is enough to condemn the company.
We must never forget that "the creation of wealth" (abstract) is above all destruction of natural wealth ... There is a very deliberate abuse of language that sows doubt in the minds.

[chatelot16]

"Secretary of State in charge of Biodiversity" and encourage palm oil with the current methaode ??? there is a big mistake

palm oil is not bad in principle, we could cultivate it intelligently ...

should any palm oil be specially taxed? I think the problem is the same for all productions, it can be well done or poorly made ... should we tax what is badly done to encourage what is well done? are we capable of it?

I do not believe ! before taxing what is harmful in the 4 corner of the world is we able to do it with us, or we excessively tax the workforce and or we let the equipment come from China for automation ... if no did the opposite, tax the material more and leave the workforce free we would avoid unemployment

is this irrelevant? no ! it is just a demonstration that taxes can be useful, but that before taxing to solve a distant problem like palm oil we should take care of more serious problems

[Ahmed]

... if we did the opposite, tax more equipment and leave the workforce free we would avoid unemployment ...

The amount of labor that is incorporated into a commodity determines the bulk of its price, but the maximum amount of labor that it is possible to integrate it depends on that socially necessary in the world market at a given moment. In other words, if it is possible to lower prices by increasing productivity (therefore by reducing the unit quantity of labor), it is not possible to operate the opposite operation and to maintain that, since it is observed that more work per unit of product => more value => more profit!
For the simple reason that this product, in competition with others less expensive, will not sell.