Canopy?

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
Ahmed
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by Ahmed » 24/07/17, 16:15

In soil with hydromorphic sequences, therefore temporary, light ridging would be more suitable than bare soil: one warns that the other slowly remedies ... : Wink:
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Did67
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by Did67 » 24/07/17, 19:29

Well, heat treatment of soils is an old "trick" in market gardening.

Conventional first.

And as the steam is "natural", it is perfectly accepted in "organic" agriculture. So we sterilize everything! To eliminate some pathogens. And it is labeled "organic" ... To my knowledge, it is still hardly practiced. The majority of "organic" market gardeners still see the contradiction. And the energy cost is not negligible, because bringing such masses of earth to more than 65 ° (I think) is not nothing.

This is one of the things that made me react, sometimes, against the "dogmas" of organic.

It is absurd for me to sterilize a floor!
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by ilguimat » 24/07/17, 19:54

Did67 wrote:Well, heat treatment of soils is an old "trick" in market gardening.

Conventional first.

And as the steam is "natural", it is perfectly accepted in "organic" agriculture. So we sterilize everything! To eliminate some pathogens. And it is labeled "organic" ... To my knowledge, it is still hardly practiced. The majority of "organic" market gardeners still see the contradiction. And the energy cost is not negligible, because bringing such masses of earth to more than 65 ° (I think) is not nothing.

This is one of the things that made me react, sometimes, against the "dogmas" of organic.

It is absurd for me to sterilize a floor!


Without counting the cost of the machine, which may have to be rented ... F.MULET specifies that its use is more than discussed. But hey it illustrates the problems of compatibility of the economic model with our ecological aspirations.
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by sicetaitsimple » 24/07/17, 22:34

nico239 wrote:
Indeed you are (in my opinion in part) right, the hay spread on a ground by our human intervention is also a form of tarpaulin.

If it has the immense advantage of protecting the earth in summer from the aggressions of the sun, as a grassy meadow would do, on the other hand in spring it delays the warming of the earth ...

Hence my question: would it be appropriate (or not) at the beginning of spring to precisely remove this hay which would thus allow the earth to warm up faster and leave the earth ... "naked" until the appearance of the first heats say summer level :?:



Well it depends ..... How it is at home (soil, climate), the cultivated area and the way to spread hay or other biomass (in bale unrolling or localized inputs), from what you cultivate, in any case it is (from my point of view) always a ratio advantages / disadvantages.

Personally, I have already explained it, I discover to sow or plant and I cover as soon as the plant has taken its place. And as soon as a plot is no longer used in the fall, it is completely covered by a thick layer until the spring when I only gradually discover it for planting or sowing. But hey it is manageable on a small surface, on 500m2 it must be a little more complicated.

Now there is no obligation to apply a uniform technique to all of his vegetable garden! We can very well, in my opinion and according to the type of vegetable, play different techniques, with their advantages / disadvantages, while remaining in the principles of ground cover.

This is what I hope to be able to experience from next year, with a significant surface extension.
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by Did67 » 24/07/17, 22:40

ilguimat wrote:
F.MULET specifies that its use is more than discussed.


A pleonasm when we talk about MSV !!!

How about a firefighter who praises the flamethrower as a fire extinguisher ??? [although, we may not know more, firefighters are called "sappers" because they burned and then cut down the houses - wooden - around a fire to prevent the whole neighborhood - wooden - from burning ; so they "undermined"]
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by Did67 » 24/07/17, 22:51

nico239 wrote:
Well, I'm not sure that the laying of hay eradicates anything of this type except certain wild herbs which have a hard time growing back under the layer ...

However your thinking is interesting because it covers (this is the case to say ...) this concept of tarpaulin.

Indeed you are (in my opinion in part) right, the hay spread on a ground by our human intervention is also a form of tarpaulin.



No matter how you garden, you inevitably "disturb" life as it would be if "nature" was allowed to take its course! I have explained myself on this several times: a vegetable patch (or even a forest-garden) is an "anthropized" space (where man changes the balance) ...

Observe a "beautiful wasteland", how little by little it becomes a forest: therefore nature itself evolves. The herbaceous plants are reduced, the shrubs, then the trees appear ... The "foragers", the birds, all that changes ... Fortunately, there are big clearers, the elephants in Africa, fire elsewhere, the man , to "open" spaces and re-establish "savannas" where flowers, foragers, etc. have their place ...

Hay is a "covering" which seriously harms the chenopods and other annual weeds specialized in reproduction by seed ... which almost disappear. With no doubt their cohort of those who like to feed on it ...

But that admirably nourishes some of our auxiliaries, earthworms, bacteria, fungi that work for us.

When I express myself properly, I use the expression "vegetable garden based on natural mechanisms" when talking about the PP, and not "natural vegetable garden". Because it is I, Did67, who "anthropizes" this space, which no longer has anything natural (in the "untouched" sense). Except that instead of using the tiller, the spade, the grelinette, I use the cohort of living auxiliaries, whom I feed, that I respect, that I disturb as little as possible ...
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 25/07/17, 00:49

ilguimat wrote:
nico239 wrote:
ilguimat wrote:Laying hay will eradicate lots of populations, microorganisms, insects ... etc used to wild grasses, but will develop other beneficial networks that interest us.


Well, I'm not sure that the laying of hay eradicates anything of this type except certain wild herbs which have a hard time growing back under the layer ...


Butterflies will still fly a little worse under the hay ... : roll: in fact we act artificially on the medium to substitute one biotope for another.


I obviously admit the human modification of this environment, however the butterfly hardly flies any more under the hay than in the jumble of herbs which surrounds it and which represents a sacred gloubi boulga elsewhere.

That said if there are butterflies (I do not know which) on the surface of the hay in the evening, and I fought with a piéride, more stubborn than me in the end, not very impressed by the layer but very interested in our cabbage .

Besides, I have a different vision of the hay thing ... I use it more to feed than to destroy.
As proof, the invasion of a whole bunch of wild stuff I already said: thistles of all kinds, bird's-foot trefoil also without counting cherry trees.

It is sure that by the way some will not like at all but (for the moment) I do not annoy those who cross the layer and coexist with beans, tomatoes, potatoes and tutti quanti.

Nothing to do with the zero defect of the screen print of the 1st post: I am far from it and am not looking for it to date.
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 25/07/17, 00:53

sicetaitsimple wrote:I discover to sow or plant and I cover as soon as the plant has taken its place.


Very interesting.
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Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 25/07/17, 00:54

Did67 wrote:Hay is a "covering" which seriously harms the chenopods and other annual weeds specialized in reproduction by seed ... which almost disappear. With no doubt their cohort of those who like to feed on it ...

But that admirably nourishes some of our auxiliaries, earthworms, bacteria, fungi that work for us.

When I express myself properly, I use the expression "vegetable garden based on natural mechanisms" when talking about the PP, and not "natural vegetable garden". Because it is I, Did67, who "anthropizes" this space, which no longer has anything natural (in the "untouched" sense). Except that instead of using the tiller, the spade, the grelinette, I use the cohort of living auxiliaries, whom I feed, that I respect, that I disturb as little as possible ...


No worries for all of this, but what about "unclogging / removing hay" at the "right time" to help the earth warm up a little faster?
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olivier75
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Re: The tarpaulin?




by olivier75 » 25/07/17, 09:22

Hello,
At the end of next winter I would like to try to cover part of the flower bed to sow during my previous visit, ie 3 weeks.
Part with a tarpaulin, part with a dusting of very black compost.
For the cover, before the month of May, I suppose that the temperature does not rise enough to destroy, the maintenance of humidity, evaporation / condensation, the trapped air and the thermal mass playing the regulators. Maybe enclose a mini / maximum thermometer?
For the compost, given the very small decrease in hay in my home, the risk of too rapid degradation worries me little, and will be sectorized, and would eventually allow a semi direct. With a pose 6 weeks before? At the start of winter? With a soil / compost mixture?
Olivier.
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