Brand new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay

Agriculture and soil. Pollution control, soil remediation, humus and new agricultural techniques.
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Did67
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by Did67 » 02/09/17, 14:16

Do not understand my questions askance: this is in no way a questioning. It's just not to take bladders for lanterns ... And to forge my convictions on real facts.

1) I tend to hear "mounds" when you have dug, then buried wood, then covered with soil - this is what you usually see. I wanted to be sure, for my precise understanding of things.

2) To know what is inside the tomato plants, it was to know at what point our "results" are different ... If you did not have mildew, subject to repetition over several years, we could admit a dazzling efficiency of other mechanisms (than those I mentioned). Subject to changes in the near future, this is less radical (which does not exclude a "certain" adaptation, or reaction ...)

3) In this case, things will probably crystallize in the days / weeks to come. Even if for the snecrosis at the level of the leaves, it is necessary to remain careful: the reactions can go to the abscission and the formation of new leaves. In the past, on the other hand, necrosis on stems led to a "generalization". You still have all your chances - must see! Me, with the necrosis on the stems, I think it will be shot pretty quickly.

I hope you will repeat the device for two or three years. I am convinced (which is not proof) that under my conditions last year, you did not see a tomato on the lying feet. What happened to me on the feet (3 or 4, intertwined) of tomato that I had left, without pruning, without staking. Everything was burnt, including the fruit, before being harvestable ... While this year, on the neglected 2 or 3 feet of the same type as I have, the attacks are more severe than in the tunnel, but infinitely less severe that I had experienced last year ...

This year, you saw it, I have necrosis on feet only outside. There is therefore a clear difference (even if to date, the two produce, but I anticipate a little, maybe wrongly, I think that very quickly, this will be screwed up on the outside; affair to follow).
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by lazzaret » 02/09/17, 14:52

agree to say that it will have been rather a year without mildew ". In a year where the" mildew "pressure is strong to very strong, the findings would probably be different. In this sense, it would be to retest as it is ( situations 4, 5 and 6).

I also think that the mechanisms combine, preventive and "curative": avoiding open water is very fair and therefore putting a roof, a great idea. Looking for a combination of elicitors could help to increase the control (in terms of duration? And / or strength?) Of the fungal attacks you get by putting up a roof.

it may be anecdotal ... or unrelated ... but I noticed that the young oaks around are stuffed with mycelium (whitish felting) of a fungal pathogen that they contracted very early. Are they at the origin of these famous elicitors of which I speak?
the vegetable garden being in an open environment, the subtlety of all the mechanisms escapes me, that's for sure. So seeing that the systems in place "work" is already a victory for me.
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by izentrop » 02/09/17, 15:31

I also found that the ventilated tomato shelter is essential to reduce attacks of late blight. The mulching and the isolation of the leaves from the ground also. See Gerbaud's advice http://www.gerbeaud.com/jardin/fiches/m ... ,1374.html

Not having started my sowing early enough, I bought clod plants, F1 pyros. Early in principle, but also planted a little late, I have only harvested tomatoes for 2 weeks.
Must also say that I tried not to remove the greedy, at least at the beginning. I tied the branches to a fence that I hung from the ceiling of the greenhouse. Since July, I have been removing the regrowth again.
Result, more tomatoes but smaller and delayed maturity.

Well the first time I have had so few attacks of mildew and I think that the 2 preventive treatments are not unrelated to this.
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by izentrop » 03/09/17, 09:30

Did67 wrote:Many living mechanisms are "competitions", leading in fact to co-evolutions ... A kind of balance, where each one always finds its place, without never completely dominating without being caught ...
Identifying the plant that resists a disease to multiply it is good, but identifying the one that resists the invariable gene of a disease is more sustainable.
It is in this that science directs its research to reduce the essential use of pesticides in arboriculture which can be extended to the rest of crops.
No news from this project http://www.arboriculture-fruitiere.com/ ... ce-durable
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by Did67 » 03/09/17, 09:40

Yes, you're right. But this is where it becomes difficult for organizations that "move" a lot! In short, which evolve quickly ...

For some parasites, we quickly find you easily the "stable part" ...

For others, no: look at malaria. Besides the fact that there is not a lot of research, because the affected countries are not very "bankable", there is this difficulty of instability of the "signatures" of Plasmodium ...

For others the "prediction" of the strain-specific, variable signature is not easy - flu shots, which sometimes "hit" next to the actual target ...
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by izentrop » 03/09/17, 11:36

Reducing nitrate pollution can also help reduce the proliferation of pathogens.
the aquatic environments most enriched in nitrates are often also those which contain the most pathogenic germs and parasites and / or vectors responsible for zoonoses (cholera, malaria and other waterborne diseases31). https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrate#. ... icit.C3.A9
We also know that
66% of the nitrates present in water come from agriculture, 22% from local authorities, and 12% from industry.

source: http://www.vedura.fr/environnement/poll ... 9269916583
Rights of reproduction: http://www.vedura.fr/legal/droit-reproduction-contenu (must be read before any reproduction of content)
To contact us: http://www.vedura.fr/contact
Phenocultors must also set an example: bare ground or covered ground with no vegetation around (trees) can also contribute to the problem on certain soils.

What are the administration waiting for to monitor and take action ... I am thinking of arable crops there;)
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by Did67 » 03/09/17, 11:58

lazzaret wrote:it may be anecdotal ... or unrelated ... but I noticed that the young oaks around are stuffed with mycelium (whitish felting) of a fungal pathogen that they contracted very early. Are they at the origin of these famous elicitors of which I speak?
the vegetable garden being in an open environment, the subtlety of all the mechanisms escapes me, that's for sure. So seeing that the systems in place "work" is already a victory for me.


I saw that too. For several years now. No doubt a fungus of the "powdery mildew" type ...

I even photographed a series of wild plants with "fungal diseases" to combat the naive idea, often expressed, that diseases are due to selection! [Once again, don't "turn around" my sentence: I'm not saying that the selection - to have big, very red fruits like this, a productivity like that, a more advanced precocity ... so I'm not saying that this selection is not going to lead to a loss of resistance ... It is automatic. When we advance on one point, we retreat on another ...]

This is not anecdotal if we want to "really understand", in order to then better cooperate with natural mechanisms, to rely on them. And to escape "religious thoughts". It seems to me to be a prerequisite for moving forward ...
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by izentrop » 03/09/17, 12:06

Did67 wrote:Yes, you're right. But this is where it becomes difficult for organizations that "move" a lot! In short, which evolve quickly ...
It may also be that we failed to make a vaccine that targets an invariable gene, as with vaccines that work.
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by Did67 » 03/09/17, 12:15

lazzaret wrote:
the controversy does not bother me, in general, I like that (too) but when I feel that it disturbs some people, I prefer to simply erase myself. Especially since I am new and that I understand the legitimacy that seniority provides.



By the way, on this point: me, it's the opposite! I think I don't surprise anyone.

I provoke, to "disturb". I contradict. I think we have to "explode" mental patterns, for people to evolve.

When, in a conference held in front of an association created to promote composting, I leave my dia where I say that composting is a waste of time and energy, I provoke. I'll just add: this is still the best way to deal with household waste "(and I say verbally:" when you don't have the garden just behind your house! ").

The line between these "provocations" and "aggression" is sometimes fine. Unfortunately, I have often slipped ... Facing a room, facing a site and people that you do not know, and who have extremely different personal sensibilities, it is obvious that by shaking to awaken some having a shell, you dismember others, less solid ...

I try to discipline myself and "let go" before it degenerates, it turns into conflict ... Sometimes (more often live, in conference), I find the kind of humor that gets it all across ! I hardly ever have anyone leaving the room. And many people come to greet me at the end, as if I had given them a present ...

I only have a composite audience in front of me. Or here, a "set of readers" ...
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Re: All new on the forum but less to cultivate using hay




by lazzaret » 03/09/17, 15:11

Did67 wrote:
lazzaret wrote:
the controversy does not bother me, in general, I like that (too) but when I feel that it disturbs some people, I prefer to simply erase myself. Especially since I am new and that I understand the legitimacy that seniority provides.



By the way, on this point: me, it's the opposite! I think I don't surprise anyone.

I provoke, to "disturb". I contradict. I think we have to "explode" mental patterns, for people to evolve.

When, in a conference held in front of an association created to promote composting, I leave my dia where I say that composting is a waste of time and energy, I provoke. I'll just add: this is still the best way to deal with household waste "(and I say verbally:" when you don't have the garden just behind your house! ").

The line between these "provocations" and "aggression" is sometimes fine. Unfortunately, I have often slipped ... Facing a room, facing a site and people that you do not know, and who have extremely different personal sensibilities, it is obvious that by shaking to awaken some having a shell, you dismember others, less solid ...

I try to discipline myself and "let go" before it degenerates, it turns into conflict ... Sometimes (more often live, in conference), I find the kind of humor that gets it all across ! I hardly ever have anyone leaving the room. And many people come to greet me at the end, as if I had given them a present ...

I only have a composite audience in front of me. Or here, a "set of readers" ...


we each have our sensitivity.
more often than not, I do things for myself in my corner. Like that neither conflict nor controversy.

as I always say, the main thing is to enjoy it. The best moment, even if I share with pleasure, is the moment when I imagine how the vegetable patch, the garden .... will evolve
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