Electric car: physical limits and overall balance

Cars, buses, bicycles, electric airplanes: all electric transportation that exist. Conversion, engines and electric drives for transport ...
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Did67
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by Did67 » 14/10/12, 12:11

Obamot wrote:
Did67 wrote:
There can be no sociological feasibility, since we know that "Sociology is the branch of the human sciences that studies and observes the way humans think and behave in society, to try to understand and explain them".


I specify my thought:

a) there is a whole set of "technical" problems in the development of EVs: producing electricity, solving the problem of storage, autonomy, the availability of lithium, its polluting extraction, etc ... etc .. .

b) I just wanted to say, thatmore, development will be better if we take into account our behavior (it's sociology, right ???).

So if the model is technically perfect (I don't know which one, but let's admit), but it doesn't adapt to our behavior, it will be a failure.

In, the occurrence I responded to the proposal for a fully shared universal fleet. We arrive at the station, we leave the car we were using and we leave with another car ...

Technically, remundo is right, it would be simpler than changing the batteries.

But from the point of view of our behavior (appropriation of material goods; mistreatment of common goods), I doubt that it is feasible!

I called it "sociological feasibility". I'm not sure it doesn't make sense. But let's admit!

I propose to start by installing a washing machine per building, rather than multiplying them! And we take stock in a year!

[this is a real experience, in which I participated over 40 years ago, in a boarding school! There was the movement of community houses ... Communities ... The results seem to me to say the least, very very reserved ...]
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by dirk pitt » 14/10/12, 13:52

Did67 wrote:
I propose to start by installing a washing machine per building, rather than multiplying them! And we take stock in a year!


a friend who lives in zurich told me that this was the case in his building and in others as well (in 2012)
each tenant has 2 to 3 "slots" per week to do his laundry. the machine is a large, very fast, large capacity laundry type machine.
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by RIAZ » 14/10/12, 14:04

Did67 wrote:So if the model is technically perfect (I don't know which one, but let's admit), but it doesn't adapt to our behavior, it will be a failure.

Yes, but our behavior can change, and this in considerable proportions. As we have a memory of goldfish we do not realize it, but this is easy to show in a lot of fields, including that of the car ...

My grandfather, who was not a sociologist, said "Necessity rules". This principle is likely to be more and more vital! All reasoning that begins with: "People will never want ..." risk of falling near the plate more and more often.
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by Obamot » 14/10/12, 15:03

dirk pitt wrote:
Did67 wrote:
I propose to start by installing a washing machine per building, rather than multiplying them! And we take stock in a year!


a friend who lives in zurich told me that this was the case in his building and in others as well (in 2012)
each tenant has 2 to 3 "slots" per week to do his laundry. the machine is a large, very fast, large capacity laundry type machine.

If you have funds, when you recover the kitty, I will take care of it and make it bear fruit on the stock exchange : Mrgreen: : Cheesy:

ok I'm leaving : Mrgreen:

PS: no, Did, you cannot use this word as you hear it, I thought about it and eventually it is "applied sociology », but even that is not fully satisfactory: because sociology is just the observation of habits and customs, nothing to do with the register of any application!

In marketing we call this the "Desk & Field research ". Perhaps it is the closest to what you want to express ... But it lacks the "social" connotation that you would like to see attached to it.

I see rather a question of "responsibility", even "collective conscience" or "civic sense" somewhere, you raise there a vast debate, super interesting by its angle of attack amha ...

NB: "collective conscience", if it exists, was confiscated from us by ... the right to vote, right?
Last edited by Obamot the 14 / 10 / 12, 15: 07, 1 edited once.
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by BobFuck » 14/10/12, 15:04

Remundo wrote:The only ecological criticism that can be done at VE, it's the origin of the electricity he uses,


You haven't read the article in English, especially on the production of batteries and motors (lithium, rare earths, etc.) which are very polluting processes (especially neodymium) ...

There is a graph with the pollution generated during production and use, by category.

By the way, there is the same problem with everything that uses rare earths (including ... wind turbines): nice photo of the chinese factory

'There's not one step of the rare earth mining process that is not disastrous for the environment. Ores are being extracted by pumping acid into the ground, and then they are processed using more acid and chemicals. Finally they are dumped into tailing lakes that are often very poorly constructed and maintained. And throughout this process, large amounts of highly toxic acids, heavy metals and other chemicals are emitted into the air that people breathe, and leak into surface and ground water. Villagers rely on this for irrigation of their crops and for drinking water.


Of course, in addition to toxic beings, the releases are radioactive (there is thorium and uranium in it, as for lithium mines).

Obviously, we can say "who cares it's the Chinese who will catch cancer", it's not so nice or green : Mrgreen:

Each electric Prius motor requires 1 kilogram (2.2 lb) of neodymium, and each battery uses 10 to 15 kg (22-33 lb) of lanthanum. That number will nearly double under Toyota's plans to boost the car's fuel economy, he said.


Getting it out of the ground currently represents in the 1 to 2 tonnes of slightly radioactive toxic waste ...
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by BobFuck » 14/10/12, 15:47

By the way, touching each other about Graphene is useless, Zn-Air type batteries (rechargeable with electricity or by electrolyte change) are already at the operational prototype stage.

http://www.eosenergystorage.com/products (among others)
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by Ahmed » 14/10/12, 15:58

Did67 wanted to speak of a "sociological acceptability" as a possible obstacle to certain changes; I think that thus formulated, this remark no longer poses a methodological concern. 8)
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by Obamot » 14/10/12, 16:32

Acceptability or not, sociology is like a mirror of society.

Whether we like it or not, we are therefore forced to accept what we have observed. 8)

It's not that? On the other hand, ideally, why should we force ourselves to undergo!

Otherwise there is this:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsabi ... %C3%A9tale

We must recognize that this interrogation is interesting to say the least! : Cheesy:
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by Did67 » 14/10/12, 18:11

Ahmed wrote:Did67 wanted to speak of a "sociological acceptability" as a possible obstacle to certain changes;


Thank you. Indeed, that is exactly what I wanted to express.

So "sociological acceptability as a limit to the feasibility of a project" ???? Oulalalala, I'm going to get turned on again!
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by Did67 » 14/10/12, 18:19

dirk pitt wrote:
a friend who lives in zurich told me that this was the case in his building and in others as well (in 2012)
each tenant has 2 to 3 "slots" per week to do his laundry. the machine is a large, very fast, large capacity laundry type machine.


Yes Yes. I also know a few cases of joint ownership or common housing, with the sharing of certain equipment!

Half a dozen cited in books.

So I summarize: 500 million Europeans who moan because purchasing power is falling and 50 who pool their "not very intimate" equipment ... If this is not a "sociological brake" ??? Oulalalalala, I'm going to get turned on again for this incorrect concept ...

I exaggerate of course.

I myself first wrote that ideas like car sharing are emerging.

From to the fact that we put all our electric cars in common (that was the idea of ​​remundo to which I replied, on the grounds that technically, it is simpler than changing batteries), I think that it will take time ...

And so, this model, for sociological reasons, I do not think it can be generalized on a large scale at present.

Is this formulation correct?

Can I express this idea? You do what you want with it!

So I think we should, while waiting for this marvelous day when our level of consciousness has reached that of this group of Zurich residents, start by pooling the batteries. AND therefore the authorities should very quickly impose a nrome (as we have three types of round batteries for our equipment).

This is what I wanted to express at the start.
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