Performance and efficiency of a solar thermal system

Solar thermal energy in all its forms: solar heating, hot water, choosing a solar collector, solar concentration, ovens and solar cookers, solar energy storage by heat buffer, solar pool, air conditioning and solar cold ..
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Christophe
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by Christophe » 27/11/07, 18:20

jean63 wrote:For your 2 circulation systems + draining sensors, I understood how it works.


You're lucky I understood that mine :D

jean63 wrote:How do you make the "junction" between your large tank and your balloon and / or your heated floor? this is your plan of the other subject and is not yet connected?


a) Rah but he inciste !! I have NO SOLAR BALLOON !! The balloon is the reserve! The heat is taken live via immersed hydrostatic exchangers. According to Pitmix (and I believe it) they are group batteries air conditioner or heater.

Dimensions approximately: L * h * l = 3 * 1 * 0.3
There are pictures on a subject but I do not know which one :D

b) Now there is a wooden balloon to see the plan but it has nothing to do with the solar except that the ECS is preheated by the solar (but one works without the other if you prefer)

c) Everything is now connected and functional but I am going to make an improvement for the regulation.

jean63 wrote:The 1er owner worked how with his tank?

Are you planning to use the water in this tank to supply your floor heating? you have to make it go up to 30 ° C mini, so warm it up before feeding the PC ... what is the temperature right now?


But that's the case! Via exchangers of which I spoke above ... do you think that 70 m3 should be used for hot water?

The temperature at 1m depth is 28.1 ° C tonight. I have a probe on the desk. Look in more detail the plan of the Deom ca give you an idea ... especially that the Solar-PC heat exchanger is drawn! : Evil:
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by jonule » 28/11/07, 09:12

Cuicui wrote:I guess it's so that the users do not burn themselves. I do not exceed 55 °, the rest goes to the pool.


curious to chug the water of the pool in winter?

I know someone who does rather the opposite, he uses the t ° C of the pool in winter (covered) to heat geothermal his install ... curious ?!
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by Christophe » 28/11/07, 09:21

A swimming pool is an energetic chasm as much to heat the water as to dry the air (with recourse to the classic methods of the dehumidifier style) than to filter the water ... but indeed, if it is inside, it can be used as a thermal buffer. And even without a system of recovery, it contributes to the heating of the house indirectly since generally it is installed in the cellar ...

A heat pump does not change much in the overall balance. Only 100% solar heated swimming pools with less energy consuming water treatment can be considered “acceptable” for the environment.

I do not even talk about chlorine (plus there are more pool owners are happy) ...
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by Cuicui » 28/11/07, 12:14

jonule wrote:curious to heat the pool water in winter?

It is a way to store excess calories inside the house, even if the pool is not hot enough to swim.
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by jean63 » 28/11/07, 13:37

Christophe wrote:
You're lucky I understood that mine

Well I'm the opposite, it's cuicui because very simple 8) .

a) Rah but he inciste !! I have NO SOLAR BALLOON !! The balloon is the reserve! The heat is taken live via immersed hydrostatic exchangers. According to Pitmix (and I believe it) they are group batteries air conditioner or heater.

Dimensions approximately: L * h * l = 3 * 1 * 0.3
There are pictures on a subject but I do not know which one

b) Now there is a wooden balloon to see the plan but it has nothing to do with the solar except that the ECS is preheated by the solar (but one works without the other if you prefer)

c) Everything is now connected and functional but I am going to make an improvement for the regulation.

jean63 wrote:
The 1er owner worked how with his tank?

Are you planning to use the water in this tank to supply your floor heating? you have to make it go up to 30 ° C mini, so warm it up before feeding the PC ... what is the temperature right now?


But that's the case! Via exchangers of which I spoke above ... do you think that 70 m3 should be used for hot water?

The temperature at 1m depth is 28.1 ° C tonight. I have a probe on the desk. Look in more detail the plan of the Deom ca give you an idea ... especially that the Solar-PC heat exchanger is drawn!
_________________


Calmeuhh ........ the boring guy is back !!! : Lol:

I understand that your sensors do not heat a balloon since the water return sensors flows into the tank.

Your system is a little sophisticated with valves everywhere from what I saw in a photo.

I understood that the solar part was not working right now, that there was work to put it back into service and that in the meantime it's your DEOM that provided you hot water for the ECS and the heated floor.

Now I remember seeing these hydrostatic exchangers immersed in the tank on a photo.

By the way, it is completely full and does not leak?

When you have 28 ° C in the tank (it's good for a late November but it will drop during the winter I guess), you recover what temperature at the exit of your exchanger and how much water flows in these exchangers (small circulator grundfos? is it the same rule as for solar collectors: if your network water arrives at 15 ° C it comes out how much of the exchanger?) ....

"Now there is a WOODEN balloon see the plan but it has nothing to do with solar except that the ECS is preheated by solar (but one works without the other if you prefer) "............


I'm going to see the plan again, because I do not draw: on one side you say that the BOIS (ECS) balloon has nothing to do with the solar and another that the ECS is preheated by the solar ..... via the heat exchangers of the tank (I understood correctly : Idea: ).

My question was pretty clear if you look good:
How are you doing "junction" between your big tank and your balloon and / or your heating floor? it's your plan of the other subject and is not connected yet?

La "junction" : response = immersed hydrostatic exchangers.

and / or : 1 answer = once the water is heated through the tank it comes to recover the heat contained in the BOIS balloon to produce the ECS in the network of hot water to the taps / u] ...... it is well there?

[u] answer 2
= ???? ..... we can also warm up the underfloor heating, but the temperature of the tank exchangers outlet is too low for the PC, so it is necessary to recover the heat produced by the DEOM (or the oil boiler, but I believe that you do not use it this "oil" isnt it ?).

In fact, Balloon function is reversed ? because usually the coil contains the heat transfer fluid that warms the water of the balloon.

It's there (I don't know if it's the latest version) =>
https://www.econologie.com/forums/schema-cha ... t4266.html
If I understand this plan, there are 2 heat exchangers in the cellar tank, one dedicated to DHW (EPS = preheated domestic water), another dedicated to underfloor heating ("reserve" circuit in the tank); both passing through the balloon which contains 2 exchangers.

And there .... I do not understand the rest for the heated floor but I suppose that it is mainly the hot water from the DEOM which feeds it .... I found your answer =>

jean63 wrote:
How do you heat your house now? with the oil boiler that supplies the floor heating?

Not with the solar buffer it is always towards the 30 ° C it is enough for the PCs... the fuel oil was used for the ECS since 3 weeks but more since 2 days since the Deom is connected to it And since today it is the PCs that are connected to the Deom with solar complement ... well it's is a little complicated it is a mixed operation: when the circulator of the deom does not turn it is the solar buffer that heats and when the circulator turns it is the deom that heats the floors and the other part of the flow makes buffer in the solar buffer ....

It seems a little complicated like that but it's simple when we understand We must look at the diagram ...


Apparently not 30 ° C in the tank (in fact 28 ° C at 1m depth before "exchange") that is not enough since it is the WOOD tank which feeds the PC !!?

Well I see roughly what happens, for against you can send hot water in your floor when it comes from the DEOM?

Your diagram seems to me very complicated for the power supply of the PCs.

Well now I let you work and tweak your install ....

Image
Last edited by jean63 the 28 / 11 / 07, 18: 23, 2 edited once.
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by the middle » 28/11/07, 17:05

:D There are no silly questions ... sometimes the answers are ... :?
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by Cuicui » 28/11/07, 18:27

In my "storage tank" of 25 m2 (a beast round garden pool) I cannot recover calories to preheat the DHW (domestic hot water) or a heated floor. But it heats the house directly and you can swim in it when the water is hot enough :P
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by jean63 » 28/11/07, 18:31

Cuicui wrote:In my "storage tank" of 25 m2 (a beast round garden pool) I cannot recover calories to preheat the DHW (domestic hot water) or a heated floor. But it heats the house directly and you can swim in it when the water is hot enough :P

Hi cuicui,

We can not find simpler. it does not increase the humidity in the house too much?

By the way, I remember you have radiators. With what do you feed them? Or are they not hooked up and you heat the wood with a stove or a fireplace?
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by Cuicui » 28/11/07, 19:19

jean63 wrote:Hi cuicui,
We can not find simpler. it does not increase the humidity in the house too much? By the way, I remember you have radiators. With what do you feed them? Or are they not hooked up and you heat the wood with a stove or a fireplace?

Hi Jean63
The pool cover is efficient and there is no moisture in the house.
Our 4 rooms to live: office + kitchen-stay on the ground floor, and room + bathroom on the floor, are heated by a single wood stove fueled by the wood which I extract from our plantation of spruce trees (dominated trees that dry on their feet, or uprooted or decapitated by storms).
Other pieces of occasional use each have their stove.
The 6 recuperation radiators are connected to the circuit of the water sensors and the big chimney of the entrance which replaces the sensors when there is no sun. They are rarely used to heat other parts of the house occasionally, as the sensors or the chimney are used above all to make the ECS (domestic hot water).
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by Cuicui » 24/12/07, 12:13

Christophe wrote:Image

I am looking for a small free software very simple to make a diagram of my installation a little similar to the beautiful design of Christophe above (valves, check valves, circulators, etc ...)
Where can we find that? I did not find anything on the Net.
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