A solar home to almost autonomous thermal buffer

Solar thermal energy in all its forms: solar heating, hot water, choosing a solar collector, solar concentration, ovens and solar cookers, solar energy storage by heat buffer, solar pool, air conditioning and solar cold ..
Aid, counseling, fixtures and examples of achievements ...
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by Christophe » 30/05/08, 12:04

Capt_Maloche wrote:Yep, I'm less hot with concrete since I learned that the silica (sand) used in the materials was slightly radiocative

but I can not find any source of confidence to validate the thing


Shit will have to destroy all the bridges and parking and building ...: Mrgreen:

Capt_Maloche wrote:For the subject, we are not right in Toff?


Yes but lost in another certainly close but not specific to 100% in large-scale caloric storage :)
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by minguinhirigue » 01/06/08, 23:59

Sorry, I left the email that was announcing answers ... where a little delay to answer

The futura-science green link features messages from some herakles. On all forums or I saw work on the subject of pebble tunnels in France, he was present. And each time, he was the only one able to talk about feedback on real houses. Here are the different posts that talk about inter-seasonal storage and that evoke the roller tunnel. The first being the most interesting:
http://forums.futura-sciences.com/showt ... %E9pass%E9
http://forums.futura-sciences.com/showt ... %E9pass%E9
http://forums.futura-sciences.com/showt ... %E9pass%E9

As far as performance is concerned, it would seem that in practice we are able to delay the heating of the rooms located above the tunnels of 3 months. It would be necessary to evaluate the consumptions of ventilation systems operating all summer to fill up with calories and part of the winter in bypass to take advantage of the greenhouse effect. And compare the extra consumption of vmc to the avoided heating consumption. I do not have any figures for the completed houses, I try to contact herakles, or find them all on the forums...

I know that it has been modeled and tested similar prototypes by the INSA of Toulouse, and a Swiss university, for greenhouses or collective buildings rather than habitat. Here are two theses: http://thiers.stephane.free.fr/repindex/TP2007.pdf
http://www.unige.ch/cyberdocuments/thes ... these.html

I unfortunately did not have time to read them enough to make a summary ...
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by Capt_Maloche » 03/06/08, 10:13

OK

It's like a Canadian well with an inertia in addition, I am far from being convinced because there is nothing other than the earth to "load" the inertia of the pebbles, must be compared with the surface of heat exchange and transmission coefficients of the available earth

Mixed results, because once the "low" thermal capacity of the rollers is exhausted, there will be a lag time to "recharge" them, during which time the well will not be operational

The theses concern the calculation notes for air / earth exchangers without internal inertia volume

Whereas if a trench is made at depth 5m, the T ° is so stable (constant 12-15 ° C) that the annual report is highly profitable.

The question is: do the rollers, which have a better heat transmission coefficient than the earth, allow enough exchange on the earth to compensate for the loss of surface?
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by CRETE » 24/07/08, 08:58

It's like a Canadian well with an inertia in addition, I am far from being convinced because there is nothing other than the earth to "load" the inertia of the pebbles,


It is necessary to associate a supply of hot air to reload the storage pebbles + ground

At 2.5m depth, the system is adapted to the summer-winter cycles, the phase shift being done on 3 months

in summer, the house is air conditioned while recharging the storage (8m3de pebbles + 250m3 earth)

At the beginning of the winter-that is 3 months after the end of the storage period -Fin August- the out-of-phase heat arrives at the floor level of the DRC and maintains some heat on 2 at 3 months

And at the same time, the fresh air is warming up on pebbles during periods without sun = night, clouds)

During sunny winter periods, there is direct heating of the habitat WITHOUT passing by the pebbles (by-pass)

At the end of the winter, the storage cools but at the same time, the sunny days get longer and the solar collector (veranda, solar roof, air sensors ..) fills the calorie deficit with partial storage in the walls and slabs of the habitat if it has a strong inertia.

At the beginning of the summer, this cold storage is used to cool while the storage cycle is resumed

Evolution of the storage temperatures at 2.5m of the profaner:
February-March = 16 to 17 ° C
June / July ~ = 20 22 ° C
August / September = 24 ° ~ 28 ° C or more depending on the size of the sensors
December / January = 20 ° C ~ 22 ° C

The trick is to have the tunnels parallel to 1.50m one under the other under the entire surface of the platform, either for 100m2 on one level, a global storage volume = 100 * 3 m = 300m3 : Mrgreen:

the lateral losses are reduced by insulating the periphery of the foundations (1.20 to 1.50m of depth)
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by Capt_Maloche » 24/07/08, 11:23

CRETE wrote:At 2.5m depth, the system is adapted to the summer-winter cycles, the phase shift being done on 3 months

in summer, the house is air conditioned while recharging the storage (8m3de pebbles + 250m3 earth)

At the beginning of the winter-that is 3 months after the end of the storage period -Fin August- the out-of-phase heat arrives at the floor level of the DRC and maintains some heat on 2 at 3 months

Evolution of the storage temperatures at 2.5m of the profaner:
February-March = 16 to 17 ° C
June / July ~ = 20 22 ° C
August / September = 24 ° ~ 28 ° C or more depending on the size of the sensors
December / January = 20 ° C ~ 22 ° C

the lateral losses are reduced by insulating the periphery of the foundations (1.20 to 1.50m of depth)

Hello,

In principle we isolate the low floor to limit losses in winter, in this case we use the inertia of storage, I do not know, but why not

the T ° you give on the year are close to the profile of T ° on the ground without development:
Image

you seem to be equipped with this system, what is the surface of the house, the amount of energy consumed per year (ratio in kw.h / m²), how much air do you use for fresh air (air or important, what is the nature of the insulation of the outer walls?
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by CRETE » 24/07/08, 12:00

Bonjour,

the graph that you put corresponds in fact to a use in "Canadian well" and outside

A Canadian well "boosted" in summer and placed UNDER the house behaves differently, : Cheesy:

Simply shifting the yellow-orange curve upwards from 6 to 8 ° C to get an idea of ​​the average storage temperatures during inter-seasonal operation. : Lol:

Example of the house BRG ... which I am the architect (1999) after other realization between 83 and 2000

125m2 surf habitable
veranda facing full SUD of a developed surface (roof + vertical walls SE and SO) = 36 m2
Variable airflow from 150 to 1200m3 / h = night time = VMC flow
the day in full sun = heating idrect OR storage between 600 and 1200m3 / h in loop between veranda and storage or inside

Walls in RTH (3.3 r) rockwool: 20cm on the roof
perimetric insulation by RTH buried on 0.80m, heavy inertia by internal splits in agglos covered with foils in the living room

needs estimated by the GEFOSAT = 29 KWH / m2 / year but in reality, due to a bullshit of the carpenter-roofer, roof with large thermal bridges difficult to catch - (the customer did not want to make a trial) : Evil:

we are at 50kwh / m2 / year with 19 € per month EDF + GDF + 4 wood steres with a moderately efficient insert

Here is the link to the GEFOSAT report

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... gaRUUk.pdf

See you ..
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by Capt_Maloche » 24/07/08, 12:41

Given the ratio, very good variable flow on fresh air
Above 7 ° C, a difference often found in air-conditioned volumes, risks of respiratory diseases may exist
yeah, good :D

a recent article limits in any case the internal T ° in summer to 26 ° C

I would still prefer the Canadian "high flow" well associated with a double flow power plant.

The greenhouse or veranda exposed south certainly

Possible solar clim and mixed DHW sensors / Heating on water storage

Heating with heated floors of course

I have to see now if in my project there is room for pebble storage :D
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by CRETE » 24/07/08, 12:59

DF may be superfluous in temperate regions in France .. :?:

in fact the air leaving the "boosted" PC risks being on the contrary cooled by the stale air at 20 ° C via an exchanger which is expensive and which will only be used 4 months out of 12 unless you live in Alsace or in Moselle ... or at high altitude, no

solar air conditioning = by "pebble tunnels" because in June July, the T ° of the platform is still low (15 to 17 ° C ... : Shock: )

solar hot water .. why on earth want panels that are difficult to maintain and cost the skin of Ephesus ??

For a long time I always associated an air-water exchange battery on the air circuit at the top of the veranda or the air sensor, it is in fact a matter of making a hot water heater work "upside down". ..we do the same in the USA (I don't know where the hell I put this link but it's on Futura)

in the end, this system is coherent and can be coupled to a wood stove, an electric battery, a forced air gas boiler etc ..

And no need heating floor .. or so a heating wall in mud bricks, coupled with a wood stove or a water sensor ...


BRG house = Image
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by Capt_Maloche » 24/07/08, 14:59

CRETE wrote:DF may be superfluous in temperate regions in France .. :?: in fact the air leaving the "boosted" PC risks being on the contrary cooled by the stale air at 20 ° C via an exchanger which is expensive and which will only be used 4 months out of 12 unless you live in Alsace or in Moselle ... or at high altitude, no

I was sick of it, :D , Ben if, but not any CTA, it is necessary to take a disengageable rotary exchanger, type SWEGN or GEA or others now http://www.swegon.com/swegon/templates/ ... 16161.aspx the exchangers have a yield of 90%, and with this type of plant, the losses on the fresh air do not represent anything more on the year,
I also reason for the North of France

CRETE wrote: solar air conditioning = by "pebble tunnels" because in June July, the T ° of the platform is still low (15 to 17 ° C ... : Shock: )

Like a well sized Canadian well that allows blowing at 14 ° C : Cheesy: I'm calculating that, you have to put the sheaths 5m deep, I see them well in the periphery

CRETE wrote:solar hot water .. why on earth want panels that are difficult to maintain and cost the skin of Ephesus ??

I like the formula :D, it is true that I am partisan direct radiation, glazing what, but in this case, nothing to store in the short term (a few days), it is in this that the sensors have their utility, and the enetretien d ' a sensor is limited

CRETE wrote: -For a long time I have always associated an air-water exchange battery on the air circuit at the top of the veranda or on the air sensor, it is in fact a matter of making a hot water unit heater work "upside down" ... we do the same in the USA (I don't know where the hell I put this link but it's on Futura)

AH? but we can not hope to have more than 40 ° C at the top of this type of volume if we want a little bit to enjoy it, and with a loss on the exchange of about 10 ° C to remain reasonable, it is a preheating at 30 ° which is envisaged ... in summer, in winter much less

CRETE wrote:And no need heating floor .. or so a heating wall in mud bricks, coupled with a wood stove or a water sensor ...
BRG house = Image

The floor heating is interesting from the point of view of comfort, note that it is reversible, the difficulty remains to feed it from a storage to be defined

The pebble solution is interesting because the exchange can be done cheaply with air, and I could see a very large volume isolated under the low floor of the house (around 150m3 with a filling rate of 70% ) to accumulate the summer, and we can imagine all the possible external sources to reinforce the "load": outside air, solar collectors, veranda ...

the house must be strongly insulated from the outside in order to maintain a significant thermal inertia inside

On the calculating side, ima ginons a very well made 75m² floor dwelling on 2 levels with 35% glazing, with 0.2 walls W / m².k coef u and 1.2 W / m².k windows

- Max losses by -7 ° C would be around 3KW (excluding fresh air, excluding sunlight supply and excluding internal inputs lighting, equipment, take the worst case, winter rotten and frozen)
- or an air flow with a blowing at 26 ° C for 19 ° C inside maximum 1200m3 / h (well, we come back to it :D )
- a max power for the heating of fresh air (-7 ° C to 26 ° C the fresh air flow voluntarily limited to 200m3 / h) of 2.3 KW

A max balance of about 5KW all confused, excluding various contributions, solar, internal etc ... which makes us according to the calculation of the DJU = 7400 KW.h for the year or 26 640 000 KJ anyway

So, let's see what our pebble pool could provide:
the specific heat is around 2KJ / Liter.k
the rate of "filling" of 70% gives us 150 x 000 x 0.7 = 2 KJ / K and let us take an effective delta T of 210 ° C or 000 KJ available

that is, even 150m3 of pebbles will only provide 1 / 20th or 4% of annual heating requirements, and 8% if I play on a delta T of the mass of 12 ° C

I did not see in the report what% of heating needs in the year brought this type of storage

the Canadian well is good :D
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by Capt_Maloche » 25/07/08, 09:34

The type of barraque I described above should be on 50 KW.h per m² and per year

Nevertheless, we can estimate that the "pebble well" will be used a little more in winter, so let's assume that the temperature of the "well" falls to 10 ° C

this gives us 150 000 x 0.7 x 2 = 210 000 KJ / K with an effective Delta T of 26-10 ° C ie 3 360 000 KJ available for 26 640 000 KJ needed

In this case more likely as needed, Pebble 150m3 will provide 1 / 8e or 13% of annual heating requirements

BOF, no need to take the cabbage, it would bring the annual conso per m² to about 43 KW.h / m², it will do as well with a Canadian well

am I wrong?
What were the results on the building that you described above? you told me 50 KW.h / m² with a roof fault, are these linear losses so important?

I think it will be difficult to go under the heading of 50KW.h / m² / an

if you have ideas, I want to work with you on various solutions, I have 2 or 3 should you interresser
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