Solar: Jean Luc Perrier, solar hydrogen production

[Christophe]

Uh ... you can repeat the question ???

[Obamot]

There is a video with Jean-Luc somewhere and which explained everything (maybe even in the thread) I couldn't find it.

[chatelot16]

yield * yield * yield * ...
I think there must not be much left in the end compared to the system implemented.

I agree but I add a downside: if you start from a "free" energy, the sun in this case, the notion of yield is much less important than starting from non-renewable energy. For example, the efficiency of the well to the oil engine is of the order of 70% (30% loss = cost of extraction, refining and distribution, oil wars NOT INCLUDED), with an average engine efficiency of 25%, the final efficiency from the well to the wheel is 0.7 * 0.25 * 0.85 (transmission losses) = approximately 15%.
It is also very weak.

The same calculation can be done for electric cars and it is in the same order of magnitude despite an on-board engine which has 90% efficiency (the majority of the losses being at the nuclear power plant which have a efficiency of 35% and line losses during transport)

Let's go back to Perrier: the notion of yield doesn't matter to me.
Indeed, it suffices to slightly increase the original power (collection surface) to increase the final useful energy.

But obviously the concept of yield must be taken into account for a profitability calculation (but hey as long as we take into account the indirect cost of oil, the calculation is biased ...)

In the case of perrier, let's make a summary calculation:

1) The needs:

1 an actual car must consume on average and around 0,7 kWh to travel 1 km. (Consumption = 7L / 100 or 70 kwh)

2) The deposit:

1 m2 = roughly 1 kw during a good sunshine in our latitudes. To obtain the hours per year in France: http://www.ciele.org/ecologie/cartesolgrande.JPG

Even better here are the kwh / an.m2:



https://www.econologie.com/carte-france- ... -gisement/

We see on the second map that the average in metropolitan France is around 2 kwh / m1300.year


3) Application to Perrier technology

Suppose a hydrogen production / storage efficiency (ie from the panel to the engine) of 10% (the reality is probably slightly higher). Each m2 would therefore give, on average in France, 130 kWh / year in the form of hydrogen.

Enough to cover: 130 / 0,7 = 185 km.
It would take approximately 100 m2 per car to reach energy efficiency. It is not small but far from being impossible! We understand better the disinterest of the authorities

When do we start a prototype?

Especially since this technology could be coupled with that of minto (see meyer!) To increase the 10% yield!

it is not because the sun is free that the performance of the chain does not matter

the sun is free but the collector is not: divide by 2 the efficiency of the multiple chain by 2 the price of the solar collector to install

I also believed a long time ago in the solar steam collector, but you have to see the reality: the price of the photovoltaic collector has regularly fallen, and no progress on the steam solution

the steam solution has a big handicap: it does not take advantage of intermittent sunshine correctly: this is why we prefer to install solar thermal plants in countries with strong sunshine

since I measure the power of the photovoltaic panel I see that the energy produced during the cloudy period is quite important, less weak than what I would have thought a priori: photovoltaics can make a quarter of their power in full sun when it there are clouds: a vapor sensor produces nothing at all at the slightest cloud because the concentration is useless for diffused light

so for those who want to make solar hydrogen today it is necessary to supply the electrolyser by photovoltaics is simpler than by steam engine

but that does not solve the problem of the other elements of the chain ... bottles and compressor at 200 bar ... safety control to avoid mixing hydrogen oxygen in the electrolyser

an electric car with interchangeable battery seems more realistic to me to drive with the sun: a battery stays at home to be charged in the sun while the other battery is in the driving car

reverse battery is more economical than charging a fixed battery which then charges the car battery

[Christophe]

Relaunching the production of hydrogen by solar thermolysis using the Perrier method is an excellent project that could be carried out in crowdfunding ...

It's time to move from econology to the concrete, right?

[chatelot16]

solar thermolysis? it exists ?

the sun can heat at the right temperature to decompose the water into hydrogen and oxygen but I do not know any solution to separate them ... and if they are not separated it recombines as it cools

only practical case where the thermal decomposition of water really makes hydrogen: the gasifier: thanks to the presence of carbon in abundance if the heat decomposes of water carbon combines with oxygen to make CO and leave the hydrogen free

so for me the only solution to take advantage of the thermal decomposition of water is to put carbon in it

we could make a solar gasifier ... in the mixed gas gasifier the partial combustion of carbon makes heat which decomposes a certain amount of water to enrich the gas with hydrogen ... with solar energy heating the gasifier would make much more hydrogen ... the heat source would not be carbon but the sun ... carbon would only be the means of capturing oxygen to take advantage of hydrogen

[Christophe]

M'enfin !!! It would be nice to read what the Perrier project is .... everything is in the beginning of this topic!

Yes the perrier project is solar thermolysis of water to make H2 ... at least on paper ...

Now at the price of solar PV panels, it may be more interesting to go through an electrolysis ... or just batteries (much easier to implement) ... or both when fuel cells are widely available public!

[chatelot16]

I have to mix the Forum : Remark already made previously on solar hydrogen:
We recover solar energy
- to make steam,
- to make mechanical energy
- to make electricity
- to make hydrogen
- to make mechanical energy
- ....

yield * yield * yield * ...
I think there must not be much left in the end compared to the system implemented.

Do not forget to deal with energy problems in a global way, including the energy to produce and deliver the necessary equipment for the production of electricity ....

The simpler it is, the more profitable it is, the less maintenance there is to do, the less polluting it is to produce, ...

I do not see any description speaking of thermolysis in the first pages ... I see only this message which speaks of steam engine and electrolysis, and nobody contradicts it in the following messages

if anyone has ever seen a system for producing hydrogen by thermolysis let them explain it!

[Christophe]

Resume the subject at the beginning solar-thermal / solar-jean-luc-Perrier production-and-hydrogen-solar-t1520.html ... and read all the articles and links cited ...

[chatelot16]

read all the articles ... I have only seen stories of the man that saw the man who had the book, but I did not find any useful information in the first pages

so if you saw or there is an explanation on thermolysis put a direct link

[izentrop]

Hello,
I found the summary I was looking for

in 1979: heliostat and hydrogen use project.
Jean-Luc Perrier's solar oven (50 kw) could transform solar energy into hydrogen by electrolysis of water. The furnace heated water in its central hearth and the pressurized steam produced operated an electric generator necessary for the process. A vehicle modified according to the principle of LPG equipment

There too it is only a question of electrolysis of water. It was already a great achievement for the time

The steam turbine can advantageously be replaced by a Stirling engine with linear generator and the electrolysis / hydrogen / internal combustion engine cycle by battery / electric motor.