Here is a link that presents elements of comparison between a theoretical study and a practical realization:
http://infoterre.brgm.fr/rapports/85-SGN-584-EAU.pdf
Recycle buried oil tank thermal buffer
Well here!
I just have to try to understand !!!
With a ladle: 30% of energy recovered, for free energy (I reason in relation to the unused fatal heat of our cogenerator!), That is reflected !!!
For a solar installation, the average cost per kWh produced must be assessed (investment + maintenance / production costs over time).
This cost is not negligible: my evaluations on a CESI installed turnkey (therefore expensive!) showed me that compared to fuel, it is "just profitable" and compared to my pellet boiler today, it is no longer.
So a cost that is between 5,5 and 8 cents per kWh, rather around 8 (fuel oil time at 0,75 euros per liter)
Multiplied by 3 (if we only recover 30%!): The system costs more than heating water with electricity at 13,5 cents per kWh !!!
A ladle, for information !!!
I just have to try to understand !!!
With a ladle: 30% of energy recovered, for free energy (I reason in relation to the unused fatal heat of our cogenerator!), That is reflected !!!
For a solar installation, the average cost per kWh produced must be assessed (investment + maintenance / production costs over time).
This cost is not negligible: my evaluations on a CESI installed turnkey (therefore expensive!) showed me that compared to fuel, it is "just profitable" and compared to my pellet boiler today, it is no longer.
So a cost that is between 5,5 and 8 cents per kWh, rather around 8 (fuel oil time at 0,75 euros per liter)
Multiplied by 3 (if we only recover 30%!): The system costs more than heating water with electricity at 13,5 cents per kWh !!!
A ladle, for information !!!
0 x
- chatelot16
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this pdf is very interesting to understand how the soil behaves as storage, and how it behaves as a source at constant temperature ... because it is well between the 2
but this PDF studies drilling: it is therefore only the soil that makes the heat capacity: negligible volume of water in drilling
with a water tank we look much more towards the storage side
the case of the tank that we already have is particular
those who want to install solar collectors for their main heating therefore much more surface area than for DHW, will inevitably have useless heat in summer, more than enough to boil their fuel tank!
installation price almost zero: just a pump: no need for an exchanger
this volume of hot water will certainly allow you to extend the solar heating only a little, before having to turn on another heating
it would be good if we suddenly went from summer to winter: we would have this tank of boiling water available to heat for a while
alas I am afraid that there is a period where the sun still allows to heat the house, and during which the tank cools down ... and when we arrive at the season or the sun is no longer enough the tank has had the time to cool down completely and no use
it means that too short a storage time is useless
rather see the injection into the tank of heat in summer rab as an experience
it is much more interesting with a heat pump ... because heat at less than 30 ° C no longer serving anything for direct heating, is still used to increase the cop of the heat pump ... provided to have a good one that takes advantage of this temperature which is unfortunately not the case of the one I have already seen
but this PDF studies drilling: it is therefore only the soil that makes the heat capacity: negligible volume of water in drilling
with a water tank we look much more towards the storage side
the case of the tank that we already have is particular
those who want to install solar collectors for their main heating therefore much more surface area than for DHW, will inevitably have useless heat in summer, more than enough to boil their fuel tank!
installation price almost zero: just a pump: no need for an exchanger
this volume of hot water will certainly allow you to extend the solar heating only a little, before having to turn on another heating
it would be good if we suddenly went from summer to winter: we would have this tank of boiling water available to heat for a while
alas I am afraid that there is a period where the sun still allows to heat the house, and during which the tank cools down ... and when we arrive at the season or the sun is no longer enough the tank has had the time to cool down completely and no use
it means that too short a storage time is useless
rather see the injection into the tank of heat in summer rab as an experience
it is much more interesting with a heat pump ... because heat at less than 30 ° C no longer serving anything for direct heating, is still used to increase the cop of the heat pump ... provided to have a good one that takes advantage of this temperature which is unfortunately not the case of the one I have already seen
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- chatelot16
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at brgm they have the means! storage was done by an electrical resistance!
so they start the destocking at the end of the storage
in real life the sun gradually slowed down in the fall and for several months is just enough for heating without storage rab ... and when winter comes we may notice that the stored heat is gone
the proportion of heat recovered with only solar heating will be lower than in their case of electric heating
I see the result of this experience as a pseudo improved geothermal energy: the average temperature of the ground goes from 12 ° to 20 °
so they start the destocking at the end of the storage
in real life the sun gradually slowed down in the fall and for several months is just enough for heating without storage rab ... and when winter comes we may notice that the stored heat is gone
the proportion of heat recovered with only solar heating will be lower than in their case of electric heating
I see the result of this experience as a pseudo improved geothermal energy: the average temperature of the ground goes from 12 ° to 20 °
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In Canada there are some who heat their basements with solar panels, otherwise after a few years the heat pump cools the soil too much.
My tank is more of an experience. This morning I recorded the temperatures: 7 ° outside, 9 ° on the manhole, and 11 ° on the surface of the fuel oil (at the bottom).
Tomorrow I'm going to add fuel oil ... I'm going to read the temperatures, we'll see how it cools.
Otherwise I may take it out, it will be more convenient to put water, and make a pellet silo instead.
My tank is more of an experience. This morning I recorded the temperatures: 7 ° outside, 9 ° on the manhole, and 11 ° on the surface of the fuel oil (at the bottom).
Tomorrow I'm going to add fuel oil ... I'm going to read the temperatures, we'll see how it cools.
Otherwise I may take it out, it will be more convenient to put water, and make a pellet silo instead.
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Re: Recycle an oil tank buried in a thermal buffer
dede2002 wrote:Hello: cheesy:,
There are even some who told me that it had to be taken out (at great expense) otherwise it would come out on its own, too funny ...
Will the sand behave in isolation, or in additional thermal storage?
A+
No, not too funny, an empty tank can go back up (not like a cork, but over time)
For sand, insulation or thermal conductor, it depends mainly on its humidity!
See to get an idea of the dry sand on a beach, and the same well impregnated with water ...
I was surprised to learn that professionals, including trainers, said that an insulator (especially polystyrene) was useless under a heated floor, the basement (earth) serving as a heat buffer tank (it seems utopian to me, but I have no figures).
I envisioned the same use for an empty tank, abandoned by a former owner (heat as much as possible 4 or 5m3 of water with a solar water heater) even if it means using this little hot water reserve only at the highest winter when the efficiency of my heat pump becomes too low.
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Have quite big ambitions to not lose sight in pursuing them.
- chatelot16
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an empty tank can go up in very soft soil completely flooded ... like moving sand, which is fortunately not very common
in normal use not everyone is rich enough to have an oil tank always full ... if all the empty fuel oil went up we would see a lot coming out of the ground!
can the floor be used as insulation ... some say it and some say the opposite ... it must be a little between the 2
so leave your tank where it is and when you have some solar panels in summer fill the tank with boiling water, and we will have real results
good insulation under a house floor will keep the heat for a few days longer than a poorly insulated house ... when you want to keep the heat of summer for winters it is not a few days, c is more than one month ... so the insulation requirement is not the same
in the example of the BRGM, we have a heating that can be used a few months after stopping the electric heating which supplies the underground storage: 2 or XNUMX months is too short to use the heat in summer rab: it gives heat in autumn when the sun is still enough to heat without storage ... and it's lost before winter
the storage time, counting on the insulation of the earth, especially depending on the size of the thing: the bigger it is, the longer it is: the brgm thing is big enough: to store longer you have to make it even bigger : not at the scale of a house but at the scale of a city
in normal use not everyone is rich enough to have an oil tank always full ... if all the empty fuel oil went up we would see a lot coming out of the ground!
can the floor be used as insulation ... some say it and some say the opposite ... it must be a little between the 2
so leave your tank where it is and when you have some solar panels in summer fill the tank with boiling water, and we will have real results
good insulation under a house floor will keep the heat for a few days longer than a poorly insulated house ... when you want to keep the heat of summer for winters it is not a few days, c is more than one month ... so the insulation requirement is not the same
in the example of the BRGM, we have a heating that can be used a few months after stopping the electric heating which supplies the underground storage: 2 or XNUMX months is too short to use the heat in summer rab: it gives heat in autumn when the sun is still enough to heat without storage ... and it's lost before winter
the storage time, counting on the insulation of the earth, especially depending on the size of the thing: the bigger it is, the longer it is: the brgm thing is big enough: to store longer you have to make it even bigger : not at the scale of a house but at the scale of a city
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Re: Recycle an oil tank buried in thermal buffer
Hello,
After 5 years, what is the use of the tank? And conclusions?
I also have a buried tank of 6000l, insulated from above with 20cm of XPS. I intend to use it as an additional accumulator and / or as a Canadian hydro well, depending on the temperature of the tank at the end of summer (solar heated, of course).
fdf
After 5 years, what is the use of the tank? And conclusions?
I also have a buried tank of 6000l, insulated from above with 20cm of XPS. I intend to use it as an additional accumulator and / or as a Canadian hydro well, depending on the temperature of the tank at the end of summer (solar heated, of course).
fdf
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Re: Recycle an oil tank buried in thermal buffer
Hello,
In your case, 6000 m3 will allow you to avoid the major problem of thermal panels which is overheating and freezing.
This tank will also allow you at the start of winter if you have a lot of thermal panels to heat even with the intermittent weather and a start of consumption of the heating of the house offset by about 15 to 20 days. This tank is a good start to continue with mass storage per well in the ground that you would then put around this tank.
It is even excellent for starting a solar heating with efficient and durable mass storage.
If you are interested we can contact MP.
In your case, 6000 m3 will allow you to avoid the major problem of thermal panels which is overheating and freezing.
This tank will also allow you at the start of winter if you have a lot of thermal panels to heat even with the intermittent weather and a start of consumption of the heating of the house offset by about 15 to 20 days. This tank is a good start to continue with mass storage per well in the ground that you would then put around this tank.
It is even excellent for starting a solar heating with efficient and durable mass storage.
If you are interested we can contact MP.
0 x
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- Grand Econologue
- posts: 1111
- Registration: 10/10/13, 16:30
- Location: Geneva countryside
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Re: Recycle an oil tank buried in thermal buffer
Ah yes with 6000m3 there is enough to do ...
Already 5 years, it goes quickly! One thing is certain, it did not go back a millimeter.
It's funny, I went back down there today, because the authorities annoy me because of the fact that I did not have any decommissioning done by an approved company! It's dry from dry and there is no residual smell, I can go nap during the heat wave (I had cleaned well)
But until I have found an idea to effectively insulate it (inside or outside), I don't want to fill it with hot water, it would heat my terrace and the house in summer. .
Already 5 years, it goes quickly! One thing is certain, it did not go back a millimeter.
It's funny, I went back down there today, because the authorities annoy me because of the fact that I did not have any decommissioning done by an approved company! It's dry from dry and there is no residual smell, I can go nap during the heat wave (I had cleaned well)
But until I have found an idea to effectively insulate it (inside or outside), I don't want to fill it with hot water, it would heat my terrace and the house in summer. .
0 x
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