France is one of the worst European pupils in terms of vaccination.

[izentrop]

The show is not always clear, but there is nothing to complain about:

Cymes is a pack donkey! To demonstrate his shows with Adriana Karembeu where he declared himself more than skeptical about acupuncture

At that time he discredited himself by playing the game of the alternative lobby (to use your colloquial words). The stamp had to be interesting, like a star who advertises.

[Janic]

At that time he discredited himself by playing the game of the alternative lobby (to use your colloquial words). The stamp had to be interesting, like a star who advertises.

he did not discredit himself on this point more than on others. His classic medical training, that is to say Western, university leads these "future medics" on an automatic skepticism vis a vis everything that is not instilled in them on the benches of the university; Then there is real life, made up of encounters, experiences which can be used to question certain dogmas and which cannot be learned on the steps of the school.
I had the experience of "advising" a future doctor, in the 9th year of university, to solve a problem on which her "bosses" were drying up miserably and this problem was solved in a week, which obviously deeply troubled her. ! This is the experience in real life!
this is the kind of thing that your non-nocturnal primum has not learned and which make him speak untruths, understandable, since he ignore them.

[izentrop]

I lived the experience of "advising" a future doctor, in 9 year university, to solve a problem on which her "bosses" were drying up miserably and this problem was solved in a week

I see: you took out an old recipe from your grandmother and presto! the miracle happened

[Janic]

I see: you took out an old recipe from your grandmother and presto! the miracle happened

in general, the blind see nothing but black! current medicine as in the past was built on old recipes from grandmothers, which shows that they were not that stupid! and this medicine continues to search in "primitive" populations (in their eyes!) for products that are effective in these populations such as willow bark which gave rise to aspirin or penicillium against bacteria (antibiotic) etc. .
When to miracles "science", I leave that to the pseudosciences that you love so much and which, in this case, had failed miserably ... and not only there!

[Janic]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gssKVHpKBwk

finally, a measured discourse on the usefulness of certain vaccines and the uselessness of others, in France and especially the absurdity of any obligation that is counterproductive.

[izentrop]

present and past medicine is built on old grandmother recipes

No, current medicine has a scientific basis.
Most grandmother's recipes don't stand up to randomized double-blind studies.

the willow bark that gave rise to aspirin

It is still more comfortable to keep tablets in your cupboard than pieces of bark of which we do not know the dose of the active ingredient and which will have to be infused before use, with a taste perhaps repulsive (I do not 've never tasted), not counting all the other bark molecules which do not necessarily have a beneficial effect.

[Janic]

Janic wrote:
present and past medicine is built on old grandmother recipes

No, current medicine has a scientific basis.

You must be having increasing difficulty understanding the meaning of words and sentences.
What is called scientific basis is the discovery of the active constituents contained in these famous grandmother recipes. It didn't come to them like that, like a gift from heaven!

Most grandmother's recipes don't stand up to double-blind randomized studies

another supposed scientific error. Double-blind tests are done on products that are extracted and therefore concentrated to be active more quickly, while the simple ones, as they are called, spread out over time ((most of the time), but can just as well act quickly, everything depends on the subject, the type of pathology, etc ... hence the example given above!

Janic wrote:
the willow bark that gave rise to aspirin

It’s still more comfortable to keep tablets in your cupboard only pieces of bark of which we do not know the dose of the active principle and which will have to be infused before use, with a taste perhaps repulsive (I have never tasted), without counting all the other bark molecules which do not necessarily have a beneficial effect.

eh yes! Of course it is more comfortable of course.
For the rest, it was thousands of years of experience that showed the quantities to be absorbed and science, as you say, ended up finding this same dosage, through experiments and trial and error too.

now have you had the courage to watch the video indicated above? And comment on it by the way!

[Grelinette]

This type of debate always takes the same form:

- on the one hand, there is the mistrust and suspicion of patients towards doctors who only practice scientific medicine that they have learned ("scientific" in the sense that it responds to scientific rules explained, reproducible and giving the same effects), and practice a few times since their "Ivory Tower" and with a rigidity that excludes the rest.

Conversely, for some doctors, what medicine does not explain has no basis: homeopathy is an example, and Lyme disease another example of current events.

There is also distrust and suspicion towards pharmaceutical companies which we know that their primary motivation is often purely financial to the point of not always telling the truth and prioritizing their benefits for the health of populations. It is a fact and the examples which prove this behavior are unfortunately numerous and recurring.

- on another side, there are undeniable medical advances that save lives.
Recently I heard a professor of medicine explained that to make his students aware of the progress of medicine, he asked them the following question:
"Let those who have already had an infection or a serious illness requiring hospitalization raise their arms ...",
then had explained,
"Without current advances in medicine, even 50 years ago, most of those who raised their arms would have died today! ..."

[Ahmed]

Grelinette, you are perfectly right to underline this duality which coexists two apparently contradictory realities, but which are both true for the most part. This explains the endless debate of our two duettists as well as their impossibility of reaching agreement, because they do not consider all of these questions with the same focus.
Let there be no mistake: it is not a question of giving here in the ambient macronism, which pretends to fallaciously reconcile opposites, but simply to humbly recognize the complexity of reality.

[Janic]

- on the other hand, there are undeniable medical advances that save lives.
Recently I heard a professor of medicine explained that to make his students aware of the progress of medicine, he asked them the following question:
"Let those who have already had an infection or a serious illness requiring hospitalization raise their arms ...",
then had explained,
"without current advances in medicine, even 50 years ago, most of those who raised their arms would have died today ! ... "

It is the kind of argument which impresses, but which corresponds only to a reductionist vision of the problem. In fact, the pathology concerned must already be identified. 50/60 years ago there was an almost systematic ablation of vegetation in children, before we realize that this immune barrier suppressed infections went further down to the tonsils and possibly their operation. The same goes for the appendix supposed to be useless until we realize its final antiseptic role. Admittedly in a certain number of cases, the infection can require certain interventions, for lack of better or rather lack of having adopted a lifestyle which reduces or eliminates these anxiety-provoking cases for parents. It is therefore necessary to have a global, holistic view we say today, not to stop at its effects, but also and above all to go back to the causes. one direction and effectively neglecting other risk factors.)