Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India

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Janic
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 15/04/17, 11:08

Just a comment on Sam's video.
If he gives the impression of a certain logic, he falls into the trap of proclaiming himself neutral on the subject, which (humanly, psychologically) is nonsense. We are all biased, as in politics, as shown by the upcoming election.
The interesting point of his speech relates largely to the placebo effect that he indicates (too!) Between 10 and 90% Whatever the therapeutic technique used which places on the same level ALL Medicines around the world and therefore all therapeutics would first be subject to the idea that one has of them. And it's fair! However, he excludes some such as cancer according to no objective scientifically provable criteria (according to the formulation he likes to repeat)! So chemo: placebo? Scientific work has shown that it has only a minor, almost non-existent impact on the pathology. Irradiation? Apart from the damage produced on the cellular system, and there it is scientifically provable, would it still be the placebo effect which plays its mysterious tricks?
There remains the surgery and its ablations and the ghost effect that it also indicates?
As we can see, the human is also a psychic being and if tomorrow we could treat all pathologies by suggestion it would be the death of the chemical pharmaceutical industries.
On this subject he evokes the misunderstanding that the pharmaceutical industry would have every interest, if homeopathy worked, to promote this path. Either he is naive or blind. On the one hand it confuses doctors (having the vocation to relieve suffering) and big pharma which is a financial industry which must survive or perish like any business and homeopathy would be suicidal there because, contrary to chemical drugs, [*] [*] it does not cause any side effects which must be "treated" then by dint of other drugs and so on. In fact, the interest of big pharma is not the initial drug, but the result which brings in much more (like derivative products following films for example) and the more people get older and the more big pharma builds customer loyalty. .

Polypedication is usual and often legitimate in the elderly. But it increases the iatrogenic risk, probably decreases adherence to treatments, and has a high cost. Better prescribing in the elderly is therefore a public health issue.
In 2001, people over the age of 65 accounted for 16% of the French population, and 39% of drug consumption in the city (1). In 2003, according to the National Health Accounts, the drug represented 21% of the consumption of care and medical goods for a value of 30 billion euros. Between 2002 and 2003, the increase in value of drug expenditure was 6,5% ...... Polypathological and polymedicated subjects are most often excluded from clinical trials[*] …… 67% of people aged 65 and over have acquired at least one pharmaceutical product in one month versus 35% for those under 65. This proportion increases with age. It is 65% among people aged 65 to 74, 70% among those aged 75-84 and 69% among those 85 and over. On average, daily HAS / SEP / SL / AD / CC 2/16 2005 consumption stood at 3,6 drugs per person aged 65 and over. It goes from 3,3 different drugs per day for 65-74 year olds, to 4,0 for 75-84 year olds, and 4,6 for 85 year olds and over. Women consume more than men (3,8 versus 3,3).

Etc ...
http://www.has-sante.fr/portail/upload/ ... 51_580.pdf

[*] how can we know the safety of drugs on the elderly if they are excluded from clinical trials? Mystery and gumdrop! :?:
[*] [*] which can be only a placebo effect product also between 10 and 90%
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by pedrodelavega » 15/04/17, 12:57

Janic wrote:the placebo effect that it indicates (too!) between 10 and 90% Whatever the therapeutic technique used which places on the same level ALL Medicines around the world and therefore all therapeutics would first be subject to the idea that one has of them.
Not "whatever" the THERAPEUTIC TECHNIQUE USED but "depending on"
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 15/04/17, 16:30

Not "whatever" the THERAPEUTIC TECHNIQUE USED but "depending on"
I listened to this video again and did not find this nuance, however:
In short, the so-called functional disorders compared to so-called organic diseases, where the placebo effect does nothing at all. Depending on the pathologies and experiences, the placebo effect shows an efficiency of 23 to 10% ....
29 'it must be understood that the conventional doctors who know that the placebo effect plays a huge role and when they see that the effects are similar, they debate, stop with the argument I took the drug, I healed therefore , the drug works, this is not how science works, science studies the principle that acts from taking the drug until recovery and it turns out that the placebo effect has the same results except the debate on individualization ... "
etc ...

As this extract shows, the placebo effect is not limited to a therapy but concerns all those which are subject to the underlined criteria such as the influence of the therapist, the desire for healing and which come under the psyche of the individual for the most sensitive to the suggestion which is in a wide range of 10 to 90% and this does not specifically concern homeopathy.
The other interesting part of his speech is the taking of precaution while referring to the official position, it is very important " homeopathy is not officially recognizedt »1'06 ''… By whom? By big pharma obviously, it's like considering that boats are not officially recognized as airplanes by aeronautics! Ah yes ? It is very intelligent as a reflection.

Another oddity on what is or is not homeopathy; I quote : " homeopathy is not the reverse of conventional medicine, it is based on the idea that to cure an ailment, you have to give something that causes the same ailment in a healthy person so if you have headaches you take something that causes headaches to heal you, etc… "
Unfortunately this discourse, even made by some "homeopaths", is inaccurate and shows a deep ignorance of the subject as for the example chosen.
Let's take a classic example of lead poisoning, which is well known to doctors and which presents specific clinical signs. Treating evil with evil would mean that the person in question was indeed intoxicated by lead and that this same lead in homeopathic dose would remove these signs and heal the patient.
However in the case of homeopathy, it is not so, since obviously (analysis of the dose of lead in the body which does not detect any trace justifying a severe intoxication) and yet the clinical signs are very present. Mystery!
Scientifically how to explain this "irrational" and therefore anti-scientific similarity?
In the same way under a real intoxication, a supposedly specific homeopathic remedy would not change anything in the patient's condition since the remedy is not a direct lead detoxifier!

« official medicine accepts all types of functioning provided it meets a single criterion having been proven according to the scientific method… »3 'decided by big pharma labs like scientific methods concerning GMOs, nuclear, asbestos already mentioned
A truly scientific method is always ONLY specific to the desired result. We will never find a scientific method of aeronautics applied to submarines, nor the reverse.

« vaccines for example are a kind of homeopathy since it cures the evil by a kind of a little bit of harm "Etc ...
Yet another pearl of the same kind which goes in the direction of its preceding affirmation.
Vaccines do not emerge from the principle of homeopathy, even from a distance, since what specifies homeopathy is not only the reduction of a weight dose, but also its non-toxicity by sufficient dilution. However, pus, even attenuated by chemical tampering, resumes its virulence from its introduction into the body, by injection, bypassing the usual immune barriers.
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 17/04/17, 09:01

We sometimes criticize the anti (anti anything for that matter) for inventing bogus arguments. Why do so when the bogus arguments of the pros (always on anything) are enough since they are tending the stick themselves to be beaten?
So I did not react immediately to this passage " Polypathological and polymedicated subjects are most often excluded from clinical trials »
http://www.has-sante.fr/portail/upload/ ... 51_580.pdf
whose promedoc orientation is indisputable.
Clearly, there are clinical trials on healthy people (often students who want to make a little pocket money) and if they do not die (immediately!) These drugs will receive their Marketing Authorization, which drugs will be given to patients polypathological most often excluded from clinical trials. Is there not a contradiction between recommending one thing on one side and avoiding it on the other? Where is the scientifically proven aspect when there is no evidence precisely and where it is the patients who then serve as guinea pigs and come to increase the number of iatrogenic deaths.
And then we read that homeopathy cannot be scientifically recognized since it does not go through clinical trials of allopathy, any more than vaccines for that matter. So two weights, two measures?
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by pedrodelavega » 19/04/17, 21:23

Janic wrote:The other interesting part of his speech is the taking of precaution while referring to the official position, it is very important " homeopathy is not officially recognizedt »1'06 ''… By whom? By big pharma, obviously.
Not by science. Big-Pharma, for its part, recognizes, produces and makes profits with homeopathy.
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 20/04/17, 08:08

janic wrote: The other interesting part of his speech is taking the precaution while referring to the official position, it is very important "homeopathy is not officially recognized" 1'06 ''… By who ? By big pharma, obviously.

Not by science.

Re-no too. LA science is not a private preserve of a small or large part of the researchers, but it covers ALL that relates to LA knowledge and therefore without particular materialistic limits and homeopathy is officially recognized in India and therefore considered scientifically established (reread the previous account given on cancer.)

Big-Pharma, for its part, recognizes, produces and makes profits with homeopathy.

This is partially correct, but in the industry we differentiate between large companies in the CAC 40, medium-sized companies listed on the stock market like boiron and small, or even very small companies, and they are not at the same level, hence the big and not a little. However, and this is also where the difference lies, it is that the cost of a treatment, of cancer for example, in homeopathy is ridiculous and without side effects whereas the treatments of big pharma are at exorbitant costs and with side effects (removal of an organ, effect of chemo and radiation, psychological shock) which will last until death ensues, but as the SS pays everything on our backs of contributors, everything is for the best in the best of all worlds.
Besides, I notice that a real scientific spirit and humanist would have worried about this point: "Polypathological and multi-drug subjects are most often excluded from clinical trials »
http://www.has-sante.fr/portail/upload/ ... 51_580.pdf
while throughout these discussions, it is precisely clinical trials that are supposed to give credibility to the validity and effectiveness of a drug and therefore without excluding the pathologies most directly concerned.
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by pedrodelavega » 21/04/17, 17:32

Janic wrote:homeopathy is officially recognized in India and therefore considered scientifically established (read the account given previously on cancer.)
Unfortunately, "officially recognized by a state" does not mean scientifically proven.

However, and this is also where the difference is, that the cost of a treatment, for example cancer, in homeopathy is ridiculous and without side effects
Homeopathy cancer treatment ... : Wink: : Wink: : Wink: and who believes : Shock:
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 21/04/17, 18:18

janic wrote: homeopathy is officially recognized in India Unfortunately,

"officially recognized by a state" does not mean scientifically proven.

Indeed, but as said and repeated from the beginning, the patients, using homeopathy, do not care at all about the pseudo-scientific discourse of a category of doctors (and especially big pharma) who are totally incompetent on this subject. What they want to do is to avoid poisoning by medication which the news reports: vioxx, depakine, etc… and prefer to turn to slightly or not toxic alternative medicines whose results are equivalent to, or even exceed, the allopathy.
and therefore considered scientifically established (re-read the previous account given on cancer.)

that apparently you have not read since, contrary to your habit, you did not dispute a single point of this study.
However, and this is also where the difference is, that the cost of a treatment, for example cancer, in homeopathy is ridiculous and without side effects

Homeopathy cancer treatment ... and some people believe it
actually you have not read the study in question!
The work indicated further on the effectiveness of H. on cancer, in India, is scientific and therefore indisputable unless you show otherwise.
And there are some who doubt it! : Shock:
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Exnihiloest » 22/04/17, 18:40

Ah the effectiveness of homeopathy recognized in India ... what could be less amazing? There are so many believers that the placebo effect is increased tenfold, among "researchers" even more than among patients!
: Lol:

There is no scientific consensus on any effectiveness of homeopathy, except placebo effect.
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Re: Homeopathy: proven effectiveness in India




by Janic » 22/04/17, 18:50

Ah the effectiveness of homeopathy recognized in India ... what could be less amazing? There are so many believers that the placebo effect is increased tenfold, among "researchers" even more than among patients!
instead of gossiping in a vacuum, indicates what, in this study, is not scientifically established. If we compare with your believers from big pharma, their placebo effect is not less or higher (10 to 90%)
There is no scientific consensus on any effectiveness of homeopathy, except placebo effect.
you see, you too use the same superstitious mantra, by dint of repeating it you end up believing it. : Evil:
I repeat it indicates what, in this Indian study, is not scientifically established.
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