Tomorrow all the unemployed?

Current Economy and Sustainable Development-compatible? GDP growth (at all costs), economic development, inflation ... How concillier the current economy with the environment and sustainable development.
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sen-no-sen
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by sen-no-sen » 15/06/17, 20:30

Another info that confirms the analyzes of this topic!

: Arrow:
SNCF plans to launch driverless TGVs by 2022-2023


SNCF is working on a totally autonomous TGV. The first TGV runs, in which the driver will be there to close the doors and deal with any contingencies, are planned for 2022-2023.

Fully automated driving "does not exist in rail mode", explains Matthieu Chabanel, Deputy Managing Director of SNCF Réseau. Because, unlike automatic subways, trains run on tracks that are not closed, making this technology more complex to set up, in particular due to possible intrusions, or a braking dose to be adapted to the weather.


But not only the TGV, also the RER:

Changing from one end of the RER E to semi-autonomous

The extension to the west of Paris of the RER E, Eole, will come into service in 2022, being semi-autonomous between Nanterre and Rosa-Parks (19th arrondissement of Paris). "This will be the first system authorized to operate automatic systems on the national rail network," said Alain Krakovitch.

The automation, called Nexteo, manages acceleration and braking, while the driver closes the doors and deals with any contingencies. Thus, a train will be able to pass every 108 seconds, instead of the current 180 seconds.

The circulation of semi-autonomous TGVs is facilitated by the fact that these trains run on dedicated tracks, with homogeneous material. Here again, the frequency of trains could be improved. For example, between Paris and Lyon, it will be possible to add 25% of trains.


In the long term, the SNCF aims for automatic driving of the train, without a driver but with personnel on board.

http://www.lemonde.fr/entreprises/article/2017/06/15/la-sncf-prevoit-de-lancer-des-tgv-sans-conducteur-d-ici-a-2022-2023_5144878_1656994.html

Note the last sentence: no more driver but staff on board! : Lol:

So no more driver at 3000 euros / month but on-board staff on CDD dressed like clowns (as in the OUIGO) and paying a pittance ...
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by sen-no-sen » 16/06/17, 15:03

Südostbahn company wants to test an automatic train


The Südostbahn railway company (SOB) wants to test an automatic train. It has submitted a request for authorization to the Confederation.

There will still be staff on the train, but most operations will be carried out automatically, the train company said Thursday. The test will be carried out on the infrastructures of the SOB.

Initially, automatic systems will replace part of the operations carried out by the personnel. However, it is not yet possible to say when a train without a driver in the cabin will be able to run on the network, the company said.

The SOB hopes to start the first tests in 2019. Automatic trains will then be gradually introduced into the normal schedule from 2020.

https://www.rjb.ch/rjb/Actualite/economie/La-compagnie-Suedostbahn-veut-tester-un-train-automatique.html
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by Christophe » 16/06/17, 21:59

The Gregory case relaunched ... thanks to an AI ...

http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/ar ... 53578.html

Like what "they" are everywhere! The invaders : Cheesy:
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by Exnihiloest » 16/06/17, 23:16

Ahmed wrote:It is because you do not understand the very particular meaning of "abstract value" which is not at all synonymous here with "artistic or symbolic value" as opposed to a concrete and material value, which is easier to grasp. Refer to the many texts I've written on the subject, if that's not too off-putting for your allergy to the economy. : Wink:

You got me wrong. I cited the artistic and the emotional as examples of functions that seem specifically human and yet will be accessible to AI, I have in no way claimed that this would be "abstract value".

As for the future performance of AI, I doubt its possibility just because human weakness and limitations cannot be copied by "things" that are too sophisticated for the sole purpose of surpassing them.

There is no question of "copying" the human. It is a question of creating the basic elements of cognitive processes, of letting them develop, and of observing the appearance in AI of everything that makes the human, since the same causes give the same effects.

If there should ever be a real and disadvantageous competition for the man because of his own creations, it would be the ultimate proof of his lack of intelligence ... : roll:

On the contrary. It is the dazzling proof of his intelligence, of his awareness of having reached his limits, and of his ambition. The creations of man will be his extension, as the man of today is the extension of Homo Habilis.
Imagnate yourself as an extraterrestrial observing what is happening on earth: man is an integral part of nature, he has no particular status in nature other than that which he gives himself, you will observe therefore a "natural" evolution where man "will pass the hand" to one or more new species resulting from the natural process linked to human nature since they were created by him.
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by Exnihiloest » 16/06/17, 23:17

Exnihiloest wrote:
Ahmed wrote:It is because you do not understand the very particular meaning of "abstract value" which is not at all synonymous here with "artistic or symbolic value" as opposed to a concrete and material value, which is easier to grasp. Refer to the many texts I've written on the subject, if that's not too off-putting for your allergy to the economy. : Wink:

You got me wrong. I cited the artistic and the emotional as examples of functions that seem specifically human and yet will be accessible to AI, I have in no way claimed that this would be "abstract value".

As for the future performance of AI, I doubt its possibility just because human weakness and limitations cannot be copied by "things" that are too sophisticated for the sole purpose of surpassing them.

There is no question of "copying" the human. It is a question of creating the basic elements of cognitive processes, of letting them develop, and of observing the appearance in AI of everything that makes the human, since the same causes give the same effects.

If there should ever be a real and disadvantageous competition for the man because of his own creations, it would be the ultimate proof of his lack of intelligence ... : roll:

On the contrary. It would be the dazzling proof of his intelligence, of his awareness of having reached his limits, and of his ambition. The creations of man will be his extension, as the man of today is the extension of Homo Habilis.
Imagnate yourself as an extraterrestrial observing what is happening on earth: man is an integral part of nature, he has no particular status in nature other than that which he gives himself, you will observe therefore a "natural" evolution where man "will pass the hand" to one or more new species resulting from the natural process linked to human nature since they were created by him.
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by Ahmed » 16/06/17, 23:28

We agree on the last point ... up to a point!
Being able to achieve this result is indeed a pinnacle of intelligence, but actually doing it ... how to put it? : roll:
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by Janic » 17/06/17, 08:25

intelligence? Here is a word that can be eaten in all sauces!
Mental function of organizing reality into thoughts. and all the rest!
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/intelligence
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by sen-no-sen » 17/06/17, 10:40

Intelligence is a pretty flattering term, but we don't get it wrong, intelligence is above all a function aimed at adapting to the environment. to maximize their future choices.(due to the second principle of thermodynamics).

Therefore it is advisable to be careful with the use of this term, human intelligence is one thing, anthropotechnical intelligence another.
If the essence of human activity has consisted in increasing our chances of survival, anthropotechnical intelligence * for its part creates more problems than it solves, in no way through incompetence but only as a motor for its evolution. future, so it would be silly to think that more AI would mean less problem.

The feedback at work now tends towards the emancipation of technology, it is for this reason that we speak of artificial intelligence.
This although still weak locally is sufficiently configured globally to act on its future.
Our current society plays the role of useful idiot by opening wide a pandora's box that it will be impossible to close when the time comes, because AI like all evolutionary forms will have little empathy for its predecessors,"she will want to persevere in her being".

Human intelligence should therefore wake up and not rely on technologism to configure the future for us.

* It is still too early to talk about AI strictly speaking, it is fairer to mention anthropotechnical intelligence, a sort of threshold between human and technological intelligence.
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by Exnihiloest » 17/06/17, 21:41

Ahmed wrote:We agree on the last point ... up to a point!
Being able to achieve this result is indeed a pinnacle of intelligence, but actually doing it ... how to put it? : roll:

And how silly that would be?
It's only silly for anyone who thinks that reproducing the past, following in his father's footsteps, refusing to try anything innovative, would be an ideal. I call it vegetating. Man has never done this.
And then to ask this question is as futile as that which would have consisted, at the times in question, in asking whether it was necessary to use agriculture, the wheel, the steam engine, the electric current, the antibiotics, the television, the pill etc. etc. This was done and participated in the transformation of the world and of man. AI will also be done, it is inevitable. In addition, there is no escaping it, it is in accordance with the Darwinian process: we try, and then it works or not, and the selection is made.
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Re: Tomorrow, all unemployed?




by Exnihiloest » 17/06/17, 22:29

sen-no-sen wrote:Intelligence is a pretty flattering term, but we don't get it wrong, intelligence is above all a function aimed at adapting to the environment. to maximize their future choices.(due to the second principle of thermodynamics).

I wouldn't say animals are "intelligent", yet even cockroaches and earthworms adapt to their environment.

Man has done the opposite, he has subjected the environment to his wishes, and this since the beginnings of agriculture or the domestication of animals in the Neolithic era. This is where we see intelligence.

Therefore it is advisable to be careful with the use of this term, human intelligence is one thing, anthropotechnical intelligence another.
If the essence of human activity has consisted in increasing our chances of survival, anthropotechnical intelligence * for its part creates more problems than it solves, in no way through incompetence but only as a motor for its evolution. future, so it would be silly to think that more AI would mean less problem.

The feedback at work now tends towards the emancipation of technology, it is for this reason that we speak of artificial intelligence.
This although still weak locally is sufficiently configured globally to act on its future.
Our current society plays the role of useful idiot by opening wide a pandora's box that it will be impossible to close when the time comes, because AI like all evolutionary forms will have little empathy for its predecessors,"she will want to persevere in her being".

Human intelligence should therefore wake up and not rely on technologism to configure the future for us.

* It is still too early to talk about AI strictly speaking, it is fairer to mention anthropotechnical intelligence, a sort of threshold between human and technological intelligence.

1) To catalog intelligence by claiming that there would be different forms, of which human intelligence would necessarily be an incomparable specificity, and the others of ersatz probably not very recommendable or limited, is the pure act of faith of a reasoning tautological. Artificial intelligence, we do not yet have it, at least not at the level of human intelligence, just a technical question as long as the point of singularity is not reached, which will not be long. Intelligence is a capacity to grasp relationships, to understand the nature of things, to organize them mentally ... When one is endowed with it, artificial or not, its field of application is wide, it is not limited to technology, or rather technology, is only a tool for purposes which may and generally are higher (why do you think Marie Curie was working hard to extract radium?).

2) The idea of ​​an intelligence which "creates more problems than it solves", aimed at science and technology, is a leitmotif. For me it is wrong. We solve more than we create, or at least as much (I'm talking about essential problems such as food, education, justice, health ...). It is also what makes the interest of existence. If intelligence were to be able to create happiness, and without the need for "anthropotechnical intelligence", it would be much simpler since the idea would take precedence over the means, and this would have already been done since homo-sapiens have existed. But we do not see the color.

We do not advance by drawing plans on the comet but by solving over time the problems of our times. No matter that it created new problems, there were the first ones to be solved, and no one is soothsayer able to predict a result with certainty. You must try.
For my part, I thank my ancestors for all they have done, which allows me today in the 21st century, at the cost of relative pollution, to live comfortably, in a heated accommodation which I do not even have to worrying about trimming or cutting wood, having schools for my children, having electricity that lights me up with a click, being treated efficiently, being able to have glasses, to have a great cultural reservoir that is the Internet, where I can find literature, science, music and all the distractions and human knowledge, which allows me to communicate with anyone in the whole world ... etc etc The middle ages Does not interest me. But those who are loath to techno may well return, in unsanitary housing, not or badly heated, in filth, in ignorance, at the mercy of the goodwill of the prince or epidemics, occupied 12 hours a day in survival the next day. Thank you, without me. Between the two paintings I have just presented, would there be others? Well let those who believe in it show them to us, not by palaver but by example.
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